Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-04-2012, 01:42 PM
 
11,642 posts, read 23,958,676 times
Reputation: 12274

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Go back and look at your post (106) and my response (107). You quoted something entirely different, and made an inference from it.
So how is that intellectually dishonest? It is a quote from the study which describes the existing body of work (which I stated in my post). He does not refute this statement. He goes on later to state that although his study is promising it may not be able to be generalized across school populations. He just does not know based on the existing research and his study.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-04-2012, 02:30 PM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,420,814 times
Reputation: 22904
I will agree that I don't believe it is a school's role to ensure my children remain occupied during the summer, but I don't have any problem with vacation assignments that allow the kids to begin the school year ready to jump right into the curriculum.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-04-2012, 02:43 PM
 
4,391 posts, read 4,254,900 times
Reputation: 5893
Quote:
Originally Posted by tulani View Post
So what? What's it to you? Are you the parent or teacher of children who won't read unless required?

If a child won't read then the onus is on the child and no one else. We can give children books, we cannot force them to read them... we just can't. Sure, we give them required reading: DURING THE SCHOOL YEAR.

We are talking SUMMER BREAK here and children should not be given any homework from school during this time. This is a time for playing. Some people seem to forget that during unsupervised play children learn many valuable lessons. Let children be children; let them learn in the way that comes most natural to them. PLAY.
Involved parents will see to it that their child/children have lots of opportunities to read and review what they learned during the last school years.
No amount of required reading is going to make readers out of children who hate reading and/or have parents that are totally indifferent to schooling.

You may not be aware of it, but No Child Left Behind puts the onus on the schools, the administrators, and yes, even the teachers to reach adequate yearly progress goals.

In schools like mine, most children will not read during the summer, even with a mandatory summer reading assignment. You may be an involved parent, but there are millions of children whose parents are as uninvolved as they can be legally and still keep their children.

No amount of assigned reading will make all students readers, but if that is the only way that at-risk students will interact with text over the summer, then I think it's a good idea. Each school district should have the autonomy to make the decisions that are the best for the students in their district. For some of them, that will include summer reading. For others, it will be having a longer summer break so that the children can travel with their parents to their summer homes around the world.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-04-2012, 03:22 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,787,181 times
Reputation: 20853
Quote:
Originally Posted by tulani View Post
So what? What's it to you? Are you the parent or teacher of children who won't read unless required?

If a child won't read then the onus is on the child and no one else. We can give children books, we cannot force them to read them... we just can't. Sure, we give them required reading: DURING THE SCHOOL YEAR.

We are talking SUMMER BREAK here and children should not be given any homework from school during this time. This is a time for playing. Some people seem to forget that during unsupervised play children learn many valuable lessons. Let children be children; let them learn in the way that comes most natural to them. PLAY.
Involved parents will see to it that their child/children have lots of opportunities to read and review what they learned during the last school years.
No amount of required reading is going to make readers out of children who hate reading and/or have parents that are totally indifferent to schooling.
Based on that reasoning we shouldn't have homework since that is outside the bounds of the school day.

And FYI, re the bolded, many studies have shown that summer reading is most important for those at risk groups like the ones whose parents maybe non-supportive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-04-2012, 03:51 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,787,181 times
Reputation: 20853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
An interesting tidbit in the beginning of the study (where they describe the existing body of work) stated:

"A synthesis of studies on summer learning loss (Cooper et
al., 1996) showed that middle-income students enjoyed reading gains during the summer whereas low-income students lost ground."

The study also focused on low performers. Not all kids are low income or low performers. I question the wisdom of assuming that because low income, low performers benefit from a voluntary reading program that all students (or a majority) will benefit from a mandatory reading program. Different programs, different populations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
^^^Nice cherry picking. Here are my allowable three sentences from that article:

"Heyns (1978) found that the “number of books read during the summer is consistently related to achievement gains; the strength of this relationship often exceeds that of socioeconomic status when prior achievement is controlled†(p. 119). Additional results from multivariate analyses indicated that measures of voluntary reading (e.g., number of books read, time spent on daily leisure reading) explained a larger proportion of the variation in reading than other recreational and enrichment activities.Based on these findings, Heyns suggested that “[w]hatever the reasons, the unique contribution of reading to summer learning suggests that increasing access to books and encouraging reading may well have a substantial impact on achievement†(p. 172)"
(Emphasis mine)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
So how is that intellectually dishonest? It is a quote from the study which describes the existing body of work (which I stated in my post). He does not refute this statement. He goes on later to state that although his study is promising it may not be able to be generalized across school populations. He just does not know based on the existing research and his study.
The bolded part, just plane old not true. All it does is describes the finding of one, relatively small study. Meanwhile the part Katriana underlined showed results from a larger study that controlled for socioeconomic status and still found gains for EVERYONE.

It is not even remotely close to accurate to say that one study "describe the existing body of work".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-04-2012, 04:25 PM
 
11,642 posts, read 23,958,676 times
Reputation: 12274
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
T
It is not even remotely close to accurate to say that one study "describe the existing body of work".
I did not say that ONE study describes the existing body of work. I said that the quote was from the part of the paper that describes the existing body of work.

Nice try but no.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-04-2012, 04:33 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,787,181 times
Reputation: 20853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
I did not say that ONE study describes the existing body of work. I said that the quote was from the part of the paper that describes the existing body of work.

Nice try but no.
LOL!

Your quote is right there, anyone can read it. Bizarre that you are attempting to back pedal when it is clear as day.

"It is a quote from the study which describes the existing body of work (which I stated in my post). He does not refute this statement."

How about the second part? The author CLEARLY shows and gives credence to a study which does REFUTE THAT STATEMENT.

You are cherry picking because you are not looking at the paper as whole but rather picking out the individual statements that you think support your point. That is the very definition of cherry picking. Because taken as a whole the paper supports the idea that summer reading assignments are useful. Cherry picking doesn't change that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-04-2012, 06:21 PM
 
28,163 posts, read 25,380,580 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Neither do I. But children reading/being read to WITHOUT it being a requirement sure would improve their quality of life, as well as contribute to fostering intellectual enrichment that will carry over into academic settings.

Again, though, this is not a teacher responsibility...this is a parent responsibility. I don't feel that it's teachers' responsibilities to mandate that parents make sure this occurs, something they should just be doing on their own. Sometimes, parents just need to step up to the plate. For parents who are doing this, cool. For those who will not/can't, their kids are unfortunately the ones who are potentially at a disadvantage. But most teachers, most of the time, can't make up for poor parental choices/inability to provide these supports...even the crusaders. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Teachers can't make a dent in making up for what some parents don't/won't/can't do. Attitudes instilled in a school environment rarely trump those instilled at home.
I completely agree with you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-04-2012, 06:29 PM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,349,075 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
I will agree that I don't believe it is a school's role to ensure my children remain occupied during the summer, but I don't have any problem with vacation assignments that allow the kids to begin the school year ready to jump right into the curriculum.
Most reasonable parents feel this way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-04-2012, 06:42 PM
 
11,642 posts, read 23,958,676 times
Reputation: 12274
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
LOL!

Your quote is right there, anyone can read it. Bizarre that you are attempting to back pedal when it is clear as day.

"It is a quote from the study which describes the existing body of work (which I stated in my post). He does not refute this statement."

How about the second part? The author CLEARLY shows and gives credence to a study which does REFUTE THAT STATEMENT.

You are cherry picking because you are not looking at the paper as whole but rather picking out the individual statements that you think support your point. That is the very definition of cherry picking. Because taken as a whole the paper supports the idea that summer reading assignments are useful. Cherry picking doesn't change that.
I think you are the one being intellectually dishonest. I did not claim that the one sentence that I quoted was the entirety of the existing body of work. I said that the quote was from the section that describes the existing body of work. There is a difference and you know it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top