What techniques are used for reducing impulsivity and carelessness during testing? (college, school)
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Our 1st grade son (who also happens to have an ADHD dx) recently went through some standardized tests at school, including Cogat, Naglieri, Stanford, etc.
He ended up doing well enough to get into the school's ALP program but he was very borderline, scores-wise. He performed clearly under what he is capable of when his attention, patience and focus are at their max. Trouble is most of the times these things are NOT at their maximum with him, as he usually treats school work as something that he just wants to get through really fast.
We have observed him during homework and two psychologists have also observed him during testing...and they both said that he is very impulsive, scattered, and prone to making completely silly mistakes, despite his high mental ability. All of these mistakes have nothing to do with cognition but everything to do with inattention and carelessness.
These are also the kind of mistakes that will apparently cost him heavy points on standardized tests in the future. Right now he didn't lose enough to NOT make it over the set line, but we can easily predict this outcome in the future, when academics will get even harder.
Apart from medication (which he was NOT on when he went through all that testing at school), what other types of behavioral techniques do people use to improve attention and focus in children, especially when they go through testing?
I have insisted on approaching any problem step by step, broken down, so he can form the habit of doing things methodically and systematically, instead of the chaotic and rushed manner in which his brain is prone to function; but he seems very bothered by the extra time and effort required to put things down on paper and explain it step by step. He just wants to do it all in his head (which is often scattered), and blurt out the answer.
For example, if I give him something simple like this little problem:
"There are 10 apples in a bag. In another bag there are 5 more apples than in the first one. How many apples are there altogether?".
He will just sit for a second and blurt 25. He can't stand to do:
10+5=15 (in the second bag)
15+10=25 (in both bags - together).
...so he can show the grader how he thought his way through the problem.
Most of the times he gets it right but sometimes he fails to pay attention to what the problem is REALLY asking, and he will quickly throw a "15" out there ... because he thinks the problem was asking how many apples were in the second bag.
Granted problems and academics in general will get harder and harder...it worries us that he will make a complete cabbage salad out of standardizes tests in the future.
If you have any behavioral tips as to how to deal with this kind of chaotic, rushed mind - I would sincerely appreciate it.
We have had problems at school too trying to get our concerns across, as they always say that he does "very well", his "academics are strong"...which for them is good enough. But it upsets us to know that he is capable of VERY HIGH performance...and because of his condition, he often ends up with just HIGH...which in competitive situations/admissions etc...can translate into "not good enough" and simply not making it into whatever program he might apply for in the future.
I should mention that we have not taken the pharmacotherapy path even though the Dr. said that we could try Focalin - and she prescribed it.
Generally speaking, we would prefer to NOT have him on medication; but with these recent tests, it dawned on us that we might simply have to use this medication at least in the testing season. Is this something that parents of ADHD kids sometimes do, or it is an "all or nothing" approach - you either have them on meds all the time or not at all?
We know the medication aspect is a controversial one and we lean towards "no medication", in general, but it would pain us to know that he will fail to make it into programs he clearly belongs in, simply because we left him with his scattered brain on test day, without any support.
Thank you so much for any practical ideas you might have, especially the behavioral intervention kind.
This is very typical of young students, add or not. Who wants to sit through hours of tedious, difficult work at all, much less at age 6? I found this problem to be very very common throughout the elementary years and right through college. As an elem teacher, about a third of all students took the guessing and getting done fast approach to testing. It actually gets a little better as they get older, but of course the tests get harder and longer. I now teach college test prep and grad school test prep and my older students find the length and endurance of the test to be the biggest challenge to doing their best. They just get tired and want to get out. It's even happened to me, and I'm generally a good test taker. I think it's the nature of the test and not the student that is the problem. Pacing is key, and also maybe a reward that is coming after the test. Something to look forward to. But essentially, it sounds like he is pretty normal in that regard. I think being very methodical can actually work against a student like that - it is daunting to have to go through this huge process and know that it's going to take you a long time. When he gets older and the stakes are high, like SAT, then test taking tricks and knowing how to attack each problem in the fastest, most efficient way possible will help.
This is very typical of young students, add or not. Who wants to sit through hours of tedious, difficult work at all, much less at age 6? I found this problem to be very very common throughout the elementary years and right through college. As an elem teacher, about a third of all students took the guessing and getting done fast approach to testing. It actually gets a little better as they get older, but of course the tests get harder and longer. I now teach college test prep and grad school test prep and my older students find the length and endurance of the test to be the biggest challenge to doing their best. They just get tired and want to get out. It's even happened to me, and I'm generally a good test taker. I think it's the nature of the test and not the student that is the problem. Pacing is key, and also maybe a reward that is coming after the test. Something to look forward to. But essentially, it sounds like he is pretty normal in that regard. I think being very methodical can actually work against a student like that - it is daunting to have to go through this huge process and know that it's going to take you a long time. When he gets older and the stakes are high, like SAT, then test taking tricks and knowing how to attack each problem in the fastest, most efficient way possible will help.
Thank you, Marie.
To be honest, this is what we thought too...that rushing through questions or just not being that attentive is typical of kids this age. However, we know other children (usually of friends or kids from his class) who are clearly much less rushed and chaotic than he is and who end up performing higher on tests simply because they focus better. For example, teachers often told us that he is an excellent reader, many grade levels ahead, and at the top of his class in this regard (he is in a school with a very high concentration of so-called "over-achievers").
Funnily enough, when he took the Standford achievement test in reading he scored in the 90th percentile, which was the minimum qualifying score for the ALP program (among others). We were honestly convinced he would do a lot better than this on reading.
I am simply trying to understand the actual mechanism by which he loses points and maybe apply some specific intervention, as it is clear his abilities are very high, yet the test scores tend to NOT reflect quite the same level. He simply loses valuable points in the process because of his incredibly chaotic and impulsive mind. When I work with him and pace him and redirect him through the process, he always does everything at the excellent level. But if left completely to his own devices, he messes up a lot simply because of rush and inattention. We noticed that this tendency is clearly more pronounced with him than what happens to the typical children we've seen at this age.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marie5v
T I think being very methodical can actually work against a student like that - it is daunting to have to go through this huge process and know that it's going to take you a long time.
Now, this is true; but if children are expected to deal with any problem that's a tad more challenging and involves several steps in thinking, not just one - then the methodical approach is CRITICAL. If we limit them to problems such as "there are 3 children in class; if 4 more come in, how many children are in class now?" 7!! then this is basically doing wrong by them, as far as I am concerned. It almost seems as if multiple-step problems are reserved only for ALP/"gifted" type classes which is another problem, in and of itself, but I am not discussing here the appropriateness of "tracking" in education.
I just know he will start this ALP program in January and he will often be expected to approach multiple-steps problems. If he will throw himself right in the middle of it chaotically, like he is prone to do, then he might not last too long in there.
Generally speaking though, I am pretty sure there are some specific interventions used by those who specialize in working with ADHD kids or those who have "executive function" issues - to teach children to pace themselves, focus, and approach things in order... I just don't know what those are.
If anyone knows of a book that might describe such interventions in detail, I would appreciate any recommendation.
We have had problems at school too trying to get our concerns across, as they always say that he does "very well", his "academics are strong"...which for them is good enough. But it upsets us to know that he is capable of VERY HIGH performance...and because of his condition, he often ends up with just HIGH...which in competitive situations/admissions etc...can translate into "not good enough" and simply not making it into whatever program he might apply for in the future.
I swear to goodness if I had the power I'd toss school testing on the dung heap of history.
Sorry, Syracusa. I have no answers for you. He sounds like an average 6 year old who doesn't particularly want to sit still and think his way through problems. Unfortunately, in this country, everything is determined by what he does sitting nicely at his desk thinking things through in the way everyone wants him to. Not by how his brain tells him to do it.
What if he's just a kid who figures things out in his head? Some people are not capable as adults of explaining how they've reached a particular conclusion. Is he intuitive? If he is, there's part of your answer.
Poor kids. We've doomed them to a life of standardized testing to determine the box they'll be put into.
Thank you, Marie.
When I work with him and pace him and redirect him through the process, he always does everything at the excellent level. But if left completely to his own devices, he messes up a lot simply because of rush and inattention. We noticed that this tendency is clearly more pronounced with him than what happens to the typical children we've seen at this age.
This is nearly always the case, actually. Yes, there are some students who will sit and do the same on their own. These are the super dedicated students - the ones that are nearly robotic in their obedience and diligence. But are the the smartest? Not always. Unfortunately, they are the ones that our school system tends to reward the most. Even at the highest levels of education, those who succeed are often not the smartest, but the ones who can get the work done. I did know a teacher once who was successful at getting challenged kids to work hard on standardized tests. She used to come up with a special, individualized method for test-taking and problem solving for each kid, and that was "their way" and they would really own it and follow it. However, she didn't learn that in school or in a book anyplace, and no one else could do what she did. If you could learn how to get kids to focus and do their best from a book, believe me, teachers and administrators would have read that book by now. I sure would have. I'm sorry, but I don't think it exists. Perhaps you'll luck out and find a really gifted teacher someplace who can help him. That's probably a better bet.
For example, if I give him something simple like this little problem:
"There are 10 apples in a bag. In another bag there are 5 more apples than in the first one. How many apples are there altogether?".
He will just sit for a second and blurt 25. He can't stand to do:
10+5=15 (in the second bag)
15+10=25 (in both bags - together).
...so he can show the grader how he thought his way through the problem.
In that example, it's obvious it's a failing on your part. You didn't say to "show your progessive work". Even though I know it's a bigger problem you're discussing. Why would you blame him? What makes you think he should show work when it wasn't requested?
"He sounds like an average 6 year old who doesn't particularly want to sit still and think his way through problems."
I would ask why he should be required to slow down for poorly designed testing?
"Unfortunately, in this country, everything is determined by what he does sitting nicely at his desk thinking things through in the way everyone wants him to."
Yea and you see the results. Maybe if he was "challenged" by the testing, he would "need" to record some intermediate results. This way the tester could keep up while examining the test results.
"What if he's just a kid who figures things out in his head? Some people are not capable as adults of explaining how they've reached a particular conclusion."
Yes, that's an important point.
"We've doomed them to a life of standardized testing to determine the box they'll be put into."
I swear to goodness if I had the power I'd toss school testing on the dung heap of history.
Sorry, Syracusa. I have no answers for you. He sounds like an average 6 year old who doesn't particularly want to sit still and think his way through problems. Unfortunately, in this country, everything is determined by what he does sitting nicely at his desk thinking things through in the way everyone wants him to. Not by how his brain tells him to do it.
What if he's just a kid who figures things out in his head? Some people are not capable as adults of explaining how they've reached a particular conclusion. Is he intuitive? If he is, there's part of your answer.
Poor kids. We've doomed them to a life of standardized testing to determine the box they'll be put into.
I am not going to argue with what you said. I agree.
I do wish we could just simply drop out of the entire system, but we don't have the resources to sponsor a bohemian, "je m'en fiche" kind of life.
In that example, it's obvious it's a failing on your part. You didn't say to "show your progessive work". Even though I know it's a bigger problem you're discussing. Why would you blame him? What makes you think he should show work when it wasn't requested?
But I did request it. And he whines and complains and says he just wants to say the answer and that's it. Now, with a problem like that, sure - he can just say the answer.
But when problems get a bit more complicated, computing stuff really quickly and carelessly in your head is very likely to end up in a bad outcome, even when you are very intelligent.
Each school system is a bit different regarding gifted IEP, ADHD 504 plan, or whatever your son has in place, if anything yet. Students with a medical diagnosis of ADHD have a right to a 504 plan.
Part of that written, formalized plan can be to give your child more breaks and thus more time to take standardized tests; the ability for test-taking to occur in a small group environment; to utilize a desk divider during testing to reduce distractions; or whatever might fit his individual needs.
Over the years, I have seen plenty of children who benefited from a wide variety of testing accommodations addressed in their plans.
Our school psychologist & gifted instructors often take quite a long time with the testing of young elementary students, breaking the test up as needed.
I imagine you have already researched diet/ADHD connections.
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