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"If all or our teachers were excellent we would not be faced with failing schools!"
That was the comment from a friend of mine who was talking about the problem with schools and education today.
I tried to tell him that it was not really the teachers fault but the fault of unmotivated students, poverty, ignorance, teachers unions, a sick youth society, and government policies that says anyone who is interested in learning is a nerd, and a thousand other reasons. He would not buy it.
He went on to say: "If the teachers were any good they could get the students to listen to them and every student would excel. And if the teacher does not get results, fire them and bring in someone who can do the job."
Do you think my friend is right? Most of the fault is the teachers?
Last edited by I'm Retired Now; 12-11-2013 at 02:31 PM..
"If all or our teachers were excellent we would not be faced with failing schools!"
That was the comment from a friend of mine who was talking about the problem with schools and education today.
I tried to tell him that it was not really the teachers fault but the fault of unmotivated teachers, poverty, ignorance, teachers unions, a sick youth society that says anyone who is interested in learning is a nerd, and a thousand other reasons. He would not buy it.
He went on to say: "If the teachers were any good they could get the students to listen to them and every student would excel. And if the teacher does not get results, fire them and bring in someone who can do the job."
Do you think my friend is right? Most of the fault is the teachers?
Your friend is only half right and half ...very, very wrong.
In the qualification department, I do think the US could do a better job recruiting better talent in the Education area. More specialization in a particular discipline would also be nice.
At the same time, even a Nobel Prize winner specialist would not be able to address discipline problems in a culture where children are raised with lax parenting approached that often result in overly self-centered and self-indulging children.
It is crazy to hold teachers responsible for discipline problems when so many children are brought up to rebel against authority (or just not take it that seriously) in the first place.
One thing that would be nice would be the elimination of parenting that sides with the children IN FRONT OF the children. As far I am concerned, elementary and middle-school children need to know that they are always accountable to the teacher and that the teacher is basically NEVER wrong, especially when it comes to discipline. Yes, as crazy as this sounds.
She can be, of course, but they don't need to know that. If the teacher sends home a less than positive note - the approach would be to hold the children responsible, not question the teacher's position in front of them.
I have identified situations in which I thought the teacher could have approached things differently - but this doesn't really matter because that class is hers, not mine; and I am deeply convinced that if we take away the authority that the teachers should have in the eyes of their students - we do children a tremendous disservice in the long run.
This is simply because nobody can learn from someone they don't resect and they are not willing to listen to.
Since NCLB was passed where test scores have become the lifeblood of a school, there has been an uptick in the rhetoric of "failing schools". Just something to keep in mind.
[b]
He went on to say: "If the teachers were any good they could get the students to listen to them and every student would excel. And if the teacher does not get results, fire them and bring in someone who can do the job."
Pretty simplistic thinking. Students who don't have parents at home encouraging them to do homework won't excel unless they're remarkably self-motivated. It doesn't matter how good the teacher is. Also, in an overcrowded classroom with twice the number of students as it should have, it's difficult to maintain order and address students' individual concerns.
On the other hand, teacher training programs in some (many?) states are a joke. Better training would result in teachers better prepared to handle discipline problems, among other things.
The problem isn't with teachers. It lies in the fundamentally stupid process by which we educate our children. It is an industrial model that isn't designed to actually create intelligent critical thinkers. It's designed to take a bright, curious six-year old and crush his soul until he is a docile little soldier, lawyer, factory worker, or middle-level manager. On the other hand, he becomes really good at following instructions and filling out forms.
And that's the problem. Because if education were really about education, then nothing we do today makes any sense. Why do the smart and motivated march in lockstep with the stupid and lazy? Why has the increasing amount of homework done nothing to increase test scores? Why, given the astounding amount of knowledge that can be found online with a few words into a search engine, are we still teaching our kids as if it were an 18th-century textile mill? Given that the amount of money spent per child, adjusting for inflation, has doubled in the past thirty years why have we not seen any improvement?
Answer those questions, and you begin to see the real problems with education in this country. It is a rigid, orthodox system designed chiefly to enrich bureaucrats and the parasitic education industry, while the poor teachers don't see a dime. It doesn't really allow a student's progress to be based on how well or how quickly he masters a subject, but by how many days he sits at his desk. It doesn't provide any meaningful incentive to the student to actually care, either. For if a student really masters his coursework, he just gets shunted into an AP course where he gets -- get this -- more homework.
To me, people are asking the wrong question when they worry about discipline in the classroom and the bad attitudes and dropout rates. They keep asking, "Why are so many kids dropping out of the system or being so disruptive?" I'm amazed that there are so few. They're being pushed down a cattle chute and know it.
Face it. Education in this country is the most hidebound, least innovative sector of American life today. Business, religious faith, even government all have managed to change and evolve with the time, while education has actually regressed in the past century. It's a shame, too. Because we were really a great civilization for a long time.
Honestly, speaking as a teacher, there isn't a lot of incentive, outside of pure altruism, for motivated, talented people to a.enter into or b.stay employed in teaching for the long term. The problems plaguing the education system mirror the problems plaguing society, overall.
"If all or our teachers were excellent we would not be faced with failing schools!"
That was the comment from a friend of mine who was talking about the problem with schools and education today.
I tried to tell him that it was not really the teachers fault but the fault of unmotivated students, poverty, ignorance, teachers unions, a sick youth society, and government policies that says anyone who is interested in learning is a nerd, and a thousand other reasons. He would not buy it.
He went on to say: "If the teachers were any good they could get the students to listen to them and every student would excel. And if the teacher does not get results, fire them and bring in someone who can do the job."
Do you think my friend is right? Most of the fault is the teachers?
Where does your friend plan to get all of these teachers who are willing to take the job knowing they'll be fired if kids would rather play on their phones than listen?
The problem with your friend's thinking is that he's putting the responsibility for the student learning on the teacher whose job it is to teach. What we need to do is put the responsibility to learn on the student. As things are now, learning is everyone's job EXCEPT theirs. I'm not sure what their job is but I sure know they are not held accountable for learning.
If I don't learn what I need to learn on my job should my boss be fired for failing to get me to listen to him or should I be fired for not listening to him and failing to learn what I needed to learn to do my job?
When I was a kid, it was my job to learn in school and I KNEW IT. I knew I faced the wrath of my parents if I failed to put in the effort necessary to learn. I have kids in my class who refuse to participate. What do you do with them? I can't open their heads and pour in the knowledge. I can't do the work of learning for them. Yet, it's my fault if they don't learn.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-11-2013 at 05:50 PM..
Actually, there's no friend of the OP. This poster had been starting threads like this, aimed at getting a rise out of people, for years under a variety of user names (like Weekend Traveler and Old Tired Man). Kind of a weird hobby, if you ask me.
Actually, there's no friend of the OP. This poster had been starting threads like this, aimed at getting a rise out of people, for years under a variety of user names (like Weekend Traveler and Old Tired Man). Kind of a weird hobby, if you ask me.
Always the same structure, too:
1. Intro ('friend' or 'relative') saw/did/talked about something interesting today
2. Wildly outlandish idea/paragraph
3. Question designed to incite?
Can pick them out a mile away. When I see a really weird thread title, 9/10 times it's him/her.
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