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View Poll Results: How many hours per month should teachers work for free?
0 - no one should be expected to work free hours for their employer 49 75.38%
1-10 5 7.69%
11-20 2 3.08%
21-30 1 1.54%
31-40 3 4.62%
A teachers should be committed enough to live at school 5 7.69%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-26-2015, 08:01 PM
 
1,624 posts, read 4,868,828 times
Reputation: 1308

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bella84 View Post
Teachers who have been employed with a particular district for the minimum number of years required have tenure. New teachers, the ones who are most likely to have nothing in their classroom, do not have tenure, and they're pretty unlikely to rock the boat by refusing to comply. Most are just happy to have a job their first year. Also, some states no longer allow tenure, even for teachers who have been in the field for a long time.

I agree with your sentiment. I really do. I'm just not sure I'd be willing to risk it as a brand new teacher.
Maybe you are misconstruing things. I can see a lazy principal telling teachers they must build a class library, but not really explaining how to go about it.

Meaning you are supposed to probably talk with your school librarian (or sister school libraries) and cajole them into giving you books and you'll probably end up with tired old books they probably want to get rid of. Or that you have to borrow books from other teachers until you can build up a sufficient inventory of your own. The next step would be to ask parents for donations or provide them a wish list of books that you want.

If those don't yield results, I'd go to a public library that are overrun by book donations (they usually give them to school for free if they ask), ask a bookstore for donations (they give remainders away to teachers and schools for the write-off), hustle scholastic sales for the commission, or peruse craigslist (or ask a parent to do it).

Children's books are long lasting subject matter but become stale as kids age, so there are tons of used kid's books out there. Obviously, it's a big hassle to be responsible for the class library and I'd think you'd prefer the school librarian or administration put together a well curated selection of books. However, I just can't see spending much of your own money when I see tons and tons of book donations at public libraries.

When I hear of teachers buying books, it is usually newer awarding winning books they love but know it is a huge bureaucratic hassle to get the school to buy them. They may buy a few or even a dozen, but not hundreds.

 
Old 05-26-2015, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis, MO
184 posts, read 245,363 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post

The diapering wasn't me but that's an aspect that many critics who always talk about teachers having to go "above and beyond" don't have a clue about.
Not to mention, changing diapers for teenage girls who may have a mental capacity of a 2 year old but still have the body of an adolescent girl. I'll leave the rest to the imagination.
 
Old 05-26-2015, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Eastern Shore of Maryland
5,940 posts, read 3,570,820 times
Reputation: 5651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Which is why more teachers should band together and speak against this nonsense. JMO Its not fair.
Maybe Taxpayers should also "Band Together" and put a stop to paying Teachers during the months they don't work. Its just not fair....
 
Old 05-26-2015, 08:06 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,355 posts, read 60,546,019 times
Reputation: 60938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
All the more reason for MORE teachers to stand up and speak out. Principals aren't going to fire 15, 20 teachers at a clip and I have a feeling most communities wouldn't stand for it either.

Maybe not in a system which only has a limited number of schools-a few elementaries, a couple middles and a high-but in larger system 15 or 20 wouldn't even make a ripple.

I've seen Principals go on vendettas for the stupidest reasons, from not liking the teacher's shoes (true story) to turning down a date with a VP.

The first was not tenured, the second was. Both were gone at the end of the year (different years. With the first teacher we lost 9 or 10 teachers that year plus an additional 7 or 8 who voluntarily transferred from a staff of 60. It was a bad year).
 
Old 05-26-2015, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis, MO
184 posts, read 245,363 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by slim04 View Post
Maybe you are misconstruing things. I can see a lazy principal telling teachers they must build a class library, but not really explaining how to go about it.

Meaning you are supposed to probably talk with your school librarian (or sister school libraries) and cajole them into giving you books and you'll probably end up with tired old books they probably want to get rid of. Or that you have to borrow books from other teachers until you can build up a sufficient inventory of your own. The next step would be to ask parents for donations or provide them a wish list of books that you want.

If those don't yield results, I'd go to a public library that are overrun by book donations (they usually give them to school for free if they ask), ask a bookstore for donations (they give remainders away to teachers and schools for the write-off), hustle scholastic sales for the commission, or peruse craigslist (or ask a parent to do it).

Children's books are long lasting subject matter but become stale as kids age, so there are tons of used kid's books out there.
Well, when I was faced with this situation my first year teaching, it was at a brand new independent charter school. No sister schools. No library. No librarian. No option but to do it yourself. All but three teachers were brand new to teaching (so very few libraries to borrow from). Asking for donations from parents might have been an option, but it was a Title I school serving low-income families. Donations for anything, not just books, were very limited.

I ended up going to garage sales and used book sales, plus taking my own childhood books from my parents' basement. I put a lot my own time and money into something that should have been provided for me and my students. Now, I have to haul loads and loads of books around anytime I change jobs, because I'm not about to go through all of that hassle and spend all of that money again.
 
Old 05-26-2015, 08:09 PM
 
2,589 posts, read 8,637,932 times
Reputation: 2644
Quote:
Originally Posted by bella84 View Post
Fair enough. Although, I do think it's possible that some of those jobs or others similar might be considered "independent contractor" jobs, in which case it is kind of like owning your own business and needing to invest your own money in it. A teacher who chooses to tutor independently would be the same way. A teacher working for a public or private school isn't.

I think what is important to realize here is that teachers aren't claiming they have the most difficult, most expensive, lowest-paying job out there. There are just so many misconceptions about it, and there needs to be a little more respect and understanding from the general public out there.
A clear distinction is that teachers spend money on things for other people's (students') use; whereas, the auto mechanic and the delivery driver are providing tools of the trade for themselves only. I am familiar with several dysfunctional school districts that have money to enter into 7-figure contracts with Sylvan to run after school remediation programs, but can't provide basic classroom materials so that students can be taught properly in the first place. I don't blame teachers for being fed up, or for complaining about it.
 
Old 05-26-2015, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis, MO
184 posts, read 245,363 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris347 View Post
What other job gives you summer months off and still pays you for it? So you buy a few items with the free money your given not working for summer vacations. And?

Teachers moan about overtime and not being paid. I wonder if they complain about being paid and not working. In fact, some get summer jobs and get two paychecks. My heart bleeds.....
Didn't you read my other post? I already explained that this is a misconception. Teachers are not paid for the summer months when they are not working. I'll even agree to the fact that it means that our salaries really aren't so bad, when you consider we're only being paid for roughly 180 days of work. But, it drives me absolutely bonkers when people claim that I'm paid for my time off of work. I'm not. I'm only paid for the days that I do work, but I get paid relatively well for those days. This is stated directly in my contract.
 
Old 05-26-2015, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis, MO
184 posts, read 245,363 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by katenik View Post
A clear distinction is that teachers spend money on things for other people's (students') use; whereas, the auto mechanic and the delivery driver are providing tools of the trade for themselves only. I am familiar with several dysfunctional school districts that have money to enter into 7-figure contracts with Sylvan to run after school remediation programs, but can't provide basic classroom materials so that students can be taught properly in the first place. I don't blame teachers for being fed up, or for complaining about it.
Good point. I don't mind buying my own pens, professional development textbooks, paying for classes I'm taking to improve my teaching skills, or buying my own notebook/binder. However, I really don't think I should have to buy spiral notebooks and two-pocket folders for students in my classroom. I did it all the time in the beginning of my career. Now, I'll do it in a rare case, but I hound the parents for it first. In the end, I always buy what is needed so that the students won't suffer.
 
Old 05-26-2015, 08:18 PM
 
1,624 posts, read 4,868,828 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by bella84 View Post
Well, when I was faced with this situation my first year teaching, it was at a brand new independent charter school. No sister schools. No library. No librarian. No option but to do it yourself. All but three teachers were brand new to teaching (so very few libraries to borrow from). Asking for donations from parents might have been an option, but it was a Title I school serving low-income families. Donations for anything, not just books, were very limited.

I ended up going to garage sales and used book sales, plus taking my own childhood books from my parents' basement. I put a lot my own time and money into something that should have been provided for me and my students. Now, I have to haul loads and loads of books around anytime I change jobs, because I'm not about to go through all of that hassle and spend all of that money again.
Look, a start-up charter school is not a typical situation for the vast majority of teachers out there, so you can't compare that when your experience is an outlier.

Seriously, tell your principal and fellow teachers to hit the public library system and ask for kids book donations. They'll give them to you for free, especially the larger central libraries or middle class suburban ones. Many of them stop or limit donations because they have so many of them.

Heck, if you posted a book drive or donation request on craigslist, you'd probably get hundreds of donations. People have piles of books laying around and are trying to get rid of them as their kids age.
 
Old 05-26-2015, 08:20 PM
 
2,589 posts, read 8,637,932 times
Reputation: 2644
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Is that a real bless you or a "Southern" bless you.

The diapering wasn't me but that's an aspect that many critics who always talk about teachers having to go "above and beyond" don't have a clue about.

I taught regular ed but almost every year I had kids who threw up in class, sometimes one would lose bowel control, a couple would faint (sometimes that was pregnancy related), diabetic issues, breathing issues, etc.

I had one girl who went into anaphylactic shock (this was before 1st Period) when a kid across the room peeled an orange. Turns out Girl 1 had massive allergies to citrus and just the smell set her off. Who knew?

I had to Heimlich 6 or 7 kids over the years who got gum or candy stuck in their throats.

Never a dull moment.

Oh, it was genuine. Special Ed. isn't for everyone. Neither is teaching, in general, for that matter.
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