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We recently applied to a private school for my son. although he should be in 7th grade due to age, they tested him and placed him in 5th grade.
I agree he shouldn't be in over his head academically, or he's just doomed to failure from the start. But what about the social aspect? He would be at least 1-1.5 grades behind where he should be for his age.
More importantly, he will be much older and physically bigger than the kids in his class. I haven't seen the class yet, but there's a big difference between a 10-year old boy and a 12-year old boy. I have concerns it wouldn't work out, school is a social setting as well as academic.
This is an excellent school, and an opportunity to recover some gaps in his education from public school. I feel the academic experience will serve him well and provide a solid foundation. But what about the social aspect?I have another option, his turn came up for a charter school for 7th grade, which would make him more age-appropriately placed. The charter school has a mixed reputation, basically its in a crummy area and run down. I feel he would get a better education in the private, albeit more costly school, although I worry about the age discrepency.
So, opinions, please!
I held mine back in 2nd (long story short, it was absolutely necessary due to hearing loss and other issues in 1st). He still suffers heartburn socially once and a while, but overall, it was one of the best things we could do in order for him to be successful now (going into 6th) and we have no regrets. That said, I did this early on for a reason - at this age of moody hormones (going into 6th) it would have been far more difficult for him to cope and I think I can say with a fair amount of certainty, he'd be much more morose about it now vs. then. Of course, I'm saying this not knowing much about your son or situation, but I think at this stage of the game (age-wise) it may be better to look into some sort of tutoring option and keep him with his own age group.
I wouldn't do it. You've just had a salesperson suggest adding 2 more years to your bill.
Instead, homeschool at an accelerated pace- there are cirriculums that are self paced and you can begin with level 5 if you like. Then when your child reaches the level of his peers you can place him in the store of your choice. You can homeschool while your child remains at the public school (you mentioned you recently applied for the private school).
[not knocking private schools. Mine went to private schools. But a business is a business.]
I was held back in the 3rd grade, and while my grades improved the next year, I think I suffered in the end. I turned 18 one third of the way through the 12th grade and pretty much went "out to lunch" for the rest of the year. I even moved out of my parent's house and stayed with a friend and paid his mother rent for a couple of weeks -- why? Because I was an adult and could do as a pleased, so that's what I did because at that point I was getting really tired of people ordering me around like a child.
I didn't drop out, but I skipped school, got familiar with the VP of discipline, and barely graduated. Lots of 18 year olds don't like going to public school when they are eligible to vote, buy a shotgun, and go to war.
It would be even worse for someone who is 19 or 20. The poor child is going to think he will be in high school forever.
In my case, the better grades I got in the 3rd grade the second time around did not mean anything when I got C's and D's in the 12th grade.
What makes many of you think we haven't done anything to assist with his education? Many assumptions have been made that we're somehow slacking off.
We've homeschooled for the last 1.5 years, I devote most of every day to him, along with outside tutoring. I'm quite astonished this private school wants to hold him back a year, when, due to logistics, etc, he's already a grade behind age-wise.
They said it was based on their placement test, but I've no feedback as to the particulars of the test, other than to be told he wouldn't function well in 6th grade and they recommended 5th grade instead. I disagree, he's too old and physically too big for 5th grade.
I feel like I'm being attacked here by some, how do you determine we, as parents, aren't doing enough because a private school wants to hold him back a year?
I agree with the posters who point out at this rate he would be 19-20 by high school graduation, which would set him up for discouragement and failure.
What makes many of you think we haven't done anything to assist with his education? Many assumptions have been made that we're somehow slacking off.
We've homeschooled for the last 1.5 years, I devote most of every day to him, along with outside tutoring. I'm quite astonished this private school wants to hold him back a year, when, due to logistics, etc, he's already a grade behind age-wise.
They said it was based on their placement test, but I've no feedback as to the particulars of the test, other than to be told he wouldn't function well in 6th grade and they recommended 5th grade instead. I disagree, he's too old and physically too big for 5th grade.
I feel like I'm being attacked here by some, how do you determine we, as parents, aren't doing enough because a private school wants to hold him back a year?
I agree with the posters who point out at this rate he would be 19-20 by high school graduation, which would set him up for discouragement and failure.
I'm sorry that you are feeling attacked, though I can't blame you - this is why I said 'too many questions for advice.' You've done a good job of answering some of mine, so let's start on a couple pieces of advice.
There are two pieces to the question:
1) What is his current academic level?
2) If he is as far behind as they think, why is that?
1) What is his current academic level?
You can't judge that from their assessment because you have a severe lack of information. From the sounds of it, you haven't seen the actual results, the assessment is their own rather than something with national norms, and you have no other data to either support or contest their recommendation.
In your shoes at this point, I would seek a second opinion about his current academic level - an 'objective' achievement test, preferably.
Some public schools like to assess before placing a home schooling child in a grade, and they might be willing therefore to do the testing for you. This is a mixed bag, but it is free, which is often a major advantage.
Private testing using something like a Woodcock-Johnson would give you a pretty clear sense of where he stood on a reliable instrument, but would also cost a bit. For more on this, see the question/answer below.
These days, there are enough materials on line from one state to another that you could also find a "6th grade test" example from one of the NCLB state programs. Several states put prior year exams on line, which permits printing and using them.
Alternatively, you could pick up an SSAT Prep Book (Secondary School Admissions Test). From their site:
Quote:
The Secondary School Admission Test (SSAT) is a multiple-choice aptitude test for students in grades 5-11. The test consists of verbal, quantitative (math) and reading comprehension sections. The verbal questions test your vocabulary, verbal reasoning, and ability to relate ideas logically. The quantitative (math) questions test your ability to solve problems involving arithmetic, elementary algebra and geometry and concepts. The reading comprehension section tests your ability to understand what you read.
The lower level is aimed at grades 5-7, and may well provide you with the information you need - and the prep books have at least one sample test in them, usually.
2) If he is as far behind as they think, why is that?
I don't know what "logistics, etc" are, but unless they are health related one way or another, they're probably not pertinent to this discussion beyond the impact they have had.
If you use one of the informal modes I suggested above - good because they are cheap - and they confirm the school's recommendation, it will be important to figure out why, especially given the direct, personal education he has been receiving. There are some questions you will want answered:
Is he weak across the board, compared to expectations, or is it centered in a single subject or discipline?
Does he have a time issue, rather than a knowledge issue? This might impact a private school's assessment, while being less obvious at home.
Does he seem to know things in conversation and instruction, but perform poorly on tests? Test anxiety is hardly rare, but again can throw off a simple assessment, especially if it caught him off guard, but also even if it is a standardized test you are using at home.
Regardless of whether he is weak in one area or across the board, what has caused the weakness? Is it 'merely' a lack of interest or relative inability in the subject or is it caused by an underlying learning disability, or by some other factor?
If you seek a 2nd opinion or do one of the tests at home and see the same thing the private school saw, then you might want to consider testing/assessment by a learning specialist/psychologist, or a SPED evaluation by the school, to make sure you know what you are dealing with. This, too, should be free - and their opinion, arising from the testing, is not binding, either.
3) What if it turns out that the school's assessment is wrong?
This is probably the simplest scenario! You have a pair of choices:
Approach the school, indicate that while you are interested, based on (whatever approach you used), you are fairly well convinced that their assessment is in error. You are willing to have him in their 6th (or 7th) grade classroom, but not in 5th - the ball is in their court.
Conversely, you can decide that putting him into an environment in which they think such of him is not what you wish to do, even if they yield and put him in a higher grade. This would be a totally defensible position in my judgment - teachers' opinions of students can often shape their experiences in that classroom and school.
Personally, and based on far too little data, if I discovered my assessment was that he was further ahead than the private school thought, I would be disinclined to put him there, because if they are a) missing the boat on the assessment by that much, and b) unaware of the long term impact of double retention, as evidenced in the research - or aware but not discussing it with you, upon giving the recommendation - then I don't trust them to pedagogically know what is best for your son.
3) What if it turns out that the school's assessment is right?
Just because they are right does not mean that the school is the right place for him.
Their lack of discussing the emotional/practical long term ramifications of the decision make me antsy. (If they did, but you merely did not include it, as it seemed extraneous to you initially, then 'never mind,' as Emily Latella used to say.)
You can ask them if they have a recommendation or referral for testing, if you trust their expertise. You can ask the public schools. Or you can ask your pediatrician - they often have somebody they know and have worked with.
I'm sorry that you are feeling attacked, though I can't blame you - this is why I said 'too many questions for advice.' You've done a good job of answering some of mine, so let's start on a couple pieces of advice.
There are two pieces to the question:
1) What is his current academic level?
2) If he is as far behind as they think, why is that?
1) What is his current academic level?
You can't judge that from their assessment because you have a severe lack of information. From the sounds of it, you haven't seen the actual results, the assessment is their own rather than something with national norms, and you have no other data to either support or contest their recommendation.
In your shoes at this point, I would seek a second opinion about his current academic level - an 'objective' achievement test, preferably.
Some public schools like to assess before placing a home schooling child in a grade, and they might be willing therefore to do the testing for you. This is a mixed bag, but it is free, which is often a major advantage.
Private testing using something like a Woodcock-Johnson would give you a pretty clear sense of where he stood on a reliable instrument, but would also cost a bit. For more on this, see the question/answer below.
These days, there are enough materials on line from one state to another that you could also find a "6th grade test" example from one of the NCLB state programs. Several states put prior year exams on line, which permits printing and using them.
Alternatively, you could pick up an SSAT Prep Book (Secondary School Admissions Test). From their site:
The lower level is aimed at grades 5-7, and may well provide you with the information you need - and the prep books have at least one sample test in them, usually.
2) If he is as far behind as they think, why is that?
I don't know what "logistics, etc" are, but unless they are health related one way or another, they're probably not pertinent to this discussion beyond the impact they have had.
If you use one of the informal modes I suggested above - good because they are cheap - and they confirm the school's recommendation, it will be important to figure out why, especially given the direct, personal education he has been receiving. There are some questions you will want answered:
Is he weak across the board, compared to expectations, or is it centered in a single subject or discipline?
Does he have a time issue, rather than a knowledge issue? This might impact a private school's assessment, while being less obvious at home.
Does he seem to know things in conversation and instruction, but perform poorly on tests? Test anxiety is hardly rare, but again can throw off a simple assessment, especially if it caught him off guard, but also even if it is a standardized test you are using at home.
Regardless of whether he is weak in one area or across the board, what has caused the weakness? Is it 'merely' a lack of interest or relative inability in the subject or is it caused by an underlying learning disability, or by some other factor?
If you seek a 2nd opinion or do one of the tests at home and see the same thing the private school saw, then you might want to consider testing/assessment by a learning specialist/psychologist, or a SPED evaluation by the school, to make sure you know what you are dealing with. This, too, should be free - and their opinion, arising from the testing, is not binding, either.
3) What if it turns out that the school's assessment is wrong?
This is probably the simplest scenario! You have a pair of choices:
Approach the school, indicate that while you are interested, based on (whatever approach you used), you are fairly well convinced that their assessment is in error. You are willing to have him in their 6th (or 7th) grade classroom, but not in 5th - the ball is in their court.
Conversely, you can decide that putting him into an environment in which they think such of him is not what you wish to do, even if they yield and put him in a higher grade. This would be a totally defensible position in my judgment - teachers' opinions of students can often shape their experiences in that classroom and school.
Personally, and based on far too little data, if I discovered my assessment was that he was further ahead than the private school thought, I would be disinclined to put him there, because if they are a) missing the boat on the assessment by that much, and b) unaware of the long term impact of double retention, as evidenced in the research - or aware but not discussing it with you, upon giving the recommendation - then I don't trust them to pedagogically know what is best for your son.
3) What if it turns out that the school's assessment is right?
Just because they are right does not mean that the school is the right place for him.
Their lack of discussing the emotional/practical long term ramifications of the decision make me antsy. (If they did, but you merely did not include it, as it seemed extraneous to you initially, then 'never mind,' as Emily Latella used to say.)
You can ask them if they have a recommendation or referral for testing, if you trust their expertise. You can ask the public schools. Or you can ask your pediatrician - they often have somebody they know and have worked with.
Good luck with all this! I hope this is helpful.
Thank you so much for your detailed, helpful information!
I feel somewhat overwhelmed at this point but now have some points to consider.
I did finally get some more feedback from the private school today, they were quite disappointing, they just said he doesn't meet their admission criteria. They wouldn't even consider him for 5th grade, which I wouldn't, either, but they now don't want to offer that option.
I felt they wanted a select group to keep their statistics high, the student is there to benefit the school, not the school to benefit the student. So that's fine that they won't accept my son, we're not there for their benefit!
They did mention, upon pressing the issue, that he may have some issues with dyslexia and dysgraphia.
Now, I know the responses I will get---have him tested for dyslexia at your public school district, they do it for free!!
Of course they do!
I've battled the public school for years to get him tested, basically they refuse to test for dyslexia unless he's at least 3 grade levels behind, and other circumstances apply. Basically, they don't test for dyslexia.
We have investigated having him tested privately, but cost is porhibitive, $1200+. Insurance does NOT pay for such testing, or if they do, its extremely limited.
But I do thank you so much for your help, its given me much to work with.
I wouldn't do it. You've just had a salesperson suggest adding 2 more years to your bill.
Instead, homeschool at an accelerated pace- there are cirriculums that are self paced and you can begin with level 5 if you like. Then when your child reaches the level of his peers you can place him in the store of your choice. You can homeschool while your child remains at the public school (you mentioned you recently applied for the private school).
[not knocking private schools. Mine went to private schools. But a business is a business.]
Exactly my feelings, they wanted to tack on another year to their bill! Without more feedback, I'm in the dark, is it him, or just this school that doesn't want him for whatever reason? To tell a parent your child has learning issues without any more discussion than that puts me in a difficult position, I need to proceed with him, need to know how!
Thank you so much for your detailed, helpful information!
I feel somewhat overwhelmed at this point but now have some points to consider.
I did finally get some more feedback from the private school today, they were quite disappointing, they just said he doesn't meet their admission criteria. They wouldn't even consider him for 5th grade, which I wouldn't, either, but they now don't want to offer that option.
I felt they wanted a select group to keep their statistics high, the student is there to benefit the school, not the school to benefit the student. So that's fine that they won't accept my son, we're not there for their benefit!
They did mention, upon pressing the issue, that he may have some issues with dyslexia and dysgraphia.
Now, I know the responses I will get---have him tested for dyslexia at your public school district, they do it for free!!
Of course they do!
I've battled the public school for years to get him tested, basically they refuse to test for dyslexia unless he's at least 3 grade levels behind, and other circumstances apply. Basically, they don't test for dyslexia.
We have investigated having him tested privately, but cost is porhibitive, $1200+. Insurance does NOT pay for such testing, or if they do, its extremely limited.
But I do thank you so much for your help, its given me much to work with.
You're very welcome.
I'm glad for you that the private school issue is resolved, even if it sounds like they were more than a tad heavy-handed in their methods. Yes, they want students who will be a credit to their school, but it is a business, whether for profit or not. Still, there is no need to be mean about it!
I don't know where you live, so I won't even remotely begin to try to tell you what resources are available to you. Your school's resistance to doing testing is not exactly shocking, but you might want to check out support groups for SPED parents in your state, or even the State Special Education office, because I suspect your school's refusal to test... stretches their discretionary powers beyond what they really are. (I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on T.V., but I have been involved in the I.E.P./SPED process in 4 states, so far - so I at least have a sense of what is somewhat common, if not absolute.)
There are some decent on-line resources, but again, I think reaching out to other parents who have dealt with and/or are dealing with similar issues is a good way to go. I expect you are going to find out there are more families wrestling with Dyslexia in your area than you might think - and finding ways to avoid reinventing the wheel may provide you with a lot of relief.
The possible dysgraphia might also serve as a sufficient kick to your recalcitrant school system. I continue to be disgusted with schools' penny-pinching, anti-educational approach to children with special needs.
I'm glad for you that the private school issue is resolved, even if it sounds like they were more than a tad heavy-handed in their methods. Yes, they want students who will be a credit to their school, but it is a business, whether for profit or not. Still, there is no need to be mean about it!
I don't know where you live, so I won't even remotely begin to try to tell you what resources are available to you. Your school's resistance to doing testing is not exactly shocking, but you might want to check out support groups for SPED parents in your state, or even the State Special Education office, because I suspect your school's refusal to test... stretches their discretionary powers beyond what they really are. (I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on T.V., but I have been involved in the I.E.P./SPED process in 4 states, so far - so I at least have a sense of what is somewhat common, if not absolute.)
There are some decent on-line resources, but again, I think reaching out to other parents who have dealt with and/or are dealing with similar issues is a good way to go. I expect you are going to find out there are more families wrestling with Dyslexia in your area than you might think - and finding ways to avoid reinventing the wheel may provide you with a lot of relief.
The possible dysgraphia might also serve as a sufficient kick to your recalcitrant school system. I continue to be disgusted with schools' penny-pinching, anti-educational approach to children with special needs.
Good luck with your next steps!
Great
I hate to sound like a defeatist, but think of it as a realist, there's no way I'm going to get the school to budge about dyslexia testing, I've fought that battle to many times. I think I will cave and get private testing, even at $1200, I've spent more than that on lawyers, etc, gone through dozens of ARD meetings, they simply won't budge, it doesn't matter what I say, what I put in writing, they stall, take forever to respond, essentially drag out the process so a school year is wasted.
Like I said, I've spent more than $1200 on special education lawyers who were, essentially, worthless. I'm getting him tested through Scottish Rite, the school will recognize their testing. Sometimes you have to move forward.
Thanks for all the advice, i feel I've been going this all alone, thanks!
I hate to sound like a defeatist, but think of it as a realist, there's no way I'm going to get the school to budge about dyslexia testing, I've fought that battle to many times. I think I will cave and get private testing, even at $1200, I've spent more than that on lawyers, etc, gone through dozens of ARD meetings, they simply won't budge, it doesn't matter what I say, what I put in writing, they stall, take forever to respond, essentially drag out the process so a school year is wasted.
Can't argue with you.
The waste of time and energy that some schools and districts put the constituent families through is far beyond the pale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marylee54
Like I said, I've spent more than $1200 on special education lawyers who were, essentially, worthless. I'm getting him tested through Scottish Rite, the school will recognize their testing. Sometimes you have to move forward.
I am glad that you can 'afford' the testing (where I understand 'afford' is a relative term), and that you have a resource that the school will accept - though I can imagine their refusing that, as well - but then they would have to do the testing, I imagine!
Quote:
Originally Posted by marylee54
Thanks for all the advice, i feel I've been going this all alone, thanks!
An awful feeling.
I'm not an expert, but I am opinionated! You are always welcome to those - and feel free to drop a private message, if you prefer.
May your son's path be smoother, going forward.
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