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Old 11-12-2007, 08:46 AM
 
4,562 posts, read 4,103,050 times
Reputation: 2288

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Sure I do. I also don't like seeing large businesses run out small businesses. I also don't like seeing rich people get richer because we keep giving them handouts like a dividends tax cut. I don't like seeing companies get sold out and people laid off.

I don't like worrying for my father every day that his company is going to get relocated or lay him off because the private equity firm that owns it decides that 6 million isn't enough profit for the year.

I don't like worrying that he is breathing in toxic chemicals and is going to get sick and his insurance will find some loophole to deny him care.

But most of all, I don't like that the government hasn't come in yet and helped to protect people like him.

I know personal responsibility its all his fault he should have worked at home depot for minimum wage and no benefits and been unable to suport his family.

Until Ron Paul shows me he has the interests of working Americans exploited by people at the top at the forefront of his mind. Until he shows me he has the interests of people who need protection from those at the top he will not get my support.
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:53 AM
 
Location: DFW, TX
2,935 posts, read 6,716,950 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by odinloki1 View Post
Sure I do. I also don't like seeing large businesses run out small businesses. I also don't like seeing rich people get richer because we keep giving them handouts like a dividends tax cut. I don't like seeing companies get sold out and people laid off.

I don't like worrying for my father every day that his company is going to get relocated or lay him off because the private equity firm that owns it decides that 6 million isn't enough profit for the year.

I don't like worrying that he is breathing in toxic chemicals and is going to get sick and his insurance will find some loophole to deny him care.

But most of all, I don't like that the government hasn't come in yet and helped to protect people like him.

I know personal responsibility its all his fault he should have worked at home depot for minimum wage and no benefits and been unable to suport his family.

Until Ron Paul shows me he has the interests of working Americans exploited by people at the top at the forefront of his mind. Until he shows me he has the interests of people who need protection from those at the top he will not get my support.
You obviously feel that my money should be used to ensure equal outcome for your father. There's a huge difference between equal opportunity and equal outcome. The government as defined in its charter is NOT the provider of equal outcome.
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Old 11-12-2007, 09:02 AM
 
4,562 posts, read 4,103,050 times
Reputation: 2288
Quote:
Originally Posted by twojciac View Post
You obviously feel that my money should be used to ensure equal outcome for your father. There's a huge difference between equal opportunity and equal outcome. The government as defined in its charter is NOT the provider of equal outcome.
Fair enough, but if the roles were reversed and it was your father I wouldn't hide behind semantics. I'd suck it up and do the right thing and realize that my actions as an individual have an impact on a lot of people and that social responsibility is needed in this world.

At won't point in time do we have equal opportunity? If you can go to inner city Detroit and pick out a kid at random and tell me they will get the equal opportunity to get a Harvard degree as Bill Gates' children or any college for that matter I'll be amazed. That poor Detroit kid may get a opportunity, but it will never equal that of Bill Gates' kid. There is no equal opportunity and until then I will complain about the unequal outcome.
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Old 11-12-2007, 09:03 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,873,039 times
Reputation: 2519
Odin, how would you ensure all of that?

Through government interference?

As outsourcing of business has been happening for decades, it seems NEITHER party cares about the loss of jobs in this country.

It would seem foolish to then vote for a candidate that is supported by either party.

Some people have come to believe that it is someone else's responsibility to take care of them,from cradle to grave,and to acheive this they are willing to make others pay for it.

Other people wold like to take the very real risk of failure but also to have the FREEDOM to succeed.

I would rather take the risk of failing than to be subject to a centralised bureaucracy running my life.
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Old 11-12-2007, 09:15 AM
 
4,562 posts, read 4,103,050 times
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Ah yes its futile, so lets vote for whomever can spin us the best no tax line or I hate abortion line.

Yes unless you are one of a few lucky people there is going to be a point where you are going to need people to take care of you. If not then at the age of 75 or thereabouts we should just start killing old people so no one will ever have to rely on anyone.

I work with the elderly day in and day out. Most have diminished capacity and would leave the hospital to walk home in the middle of the night right in the middle of traffic. They need to rely on someone and odds are its gonna happen to you.

Yes the risk of failure and freedom to succeed is nice but there's NO reason why we can't develop social safety nets so people can have the opportunity to succeed without a constant fear of failure.

Bad news, a corporation of some sort is probably already running your life, by forcing you to work for less, moving you across the country. I'd move back to Michigan if I could but corporations shipped out all the jobs overseas so there is no work in any field too bad but I didn't get that choice several corporations made that for me by shipping all the jobs away.

Ah the illusion of control and choice.

At least a government you can vote someone into power its your own fault if you can't write in or support a third party.
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Old 11-14-2007, 02:03 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,481,395 times
Reputation: 4185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnulus View Post
Libertarianism is anti-democratic, because it takes powers away from people and throws it into the wind and sees who catches it. People with big hands grab the most. Then they call that justice.
Why is rule by the ignorant, malleable demos any more just? Why do we romanticize the "people" anyway?
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Old 11-14-2007, 02:06 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,481,395 times
Reputation: 4185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Oh, I'm well aware that the Presidency does not include dictatorial powers. Only the paranoid Left thinks that. But even so, Paul would going need a whole lot of help to repeal the IRS. Somehow, I don't see that kind of amendment succeeding in the current political climate. Only a nut would think it could. Hence my opinion of Dr. Paul.
None of these sentences remotely cohere with one another, nor with anything Dr. Paul has actually said.
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Old 11-14-2007, 10:45 AM
 
Location: South Central PA
1,565 posts, read 4,311,239 times
Reputation: 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by odinloki1 View Post
Sure I do. I also don't like seeing large businesses run out small businesses. I also don't like seeing rich people get richer because we keep giving them handouts like a dividends tax cut. I don't like seeing companies get sold out and people laid off.

I don't like worrying for my father every day that his company is going to get relocated or lay him off because the private equity firm that owns it decides that 6 million isn't enough profit for the year.

I don't like worrying that he is breathing in toxic chemicals and is going to get sick and his insurance will find some loophole to deny him care.

But most of all, I don't like that the government hasn't come in yet and helped to protect people like him.

I know personal responsibility its all his fault he should have worked at home depot for minimum wage and no benefits and been unable to suport his family.

Until Ron Paul shows me he has the interests of working Americans exploited by people at the top at the forefront of his mind. Until he shows me he has the interests of people who need protection from those at the top he will not get my support.
Essentially in a really really condensed version, ron paul is for more state rights. They have more knowledge of what they need than the federal government does, and reduces the buerocracy. Hell, most states have higher minimum wage than the federal government, spend equal amounts on the interstate system that was supposed to be completely federal, have their own more efficient CHIP's and healthcare plans.
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Old 11-19-2007, 10:04 AM
 
4,562 posts, read 4,103,050 times
Reputation: 2288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marodi View Post
Essentially in a really really condensed version, ron paul is for more state rights. They have more knowledge of what they need than the federal government does, and reduces the buerocracy. Hell, most states have higher minimum wage than the federal government, spend equal amounts on the interstate system that was supposed to be completely federal, have their own more efficient CHIP's and healthcare plans.
We tried the states rights thing. It was called the Articles of Confederation. It didn't work, so the Constitution was written.

In a country of businesses that operate nationwide, I do not see how eroding power from a federal government will help people.

I have been in economically depressed areas and seen what they (the communities) will do to entice business to come there. Businesses make communities compete against each other to get the best deal (lowest taxes, dump waste wherever they like, and depress wages) and people will be suckered into doing this otherwise the business will go somewhere else and they'll have to move to find work.

States already do this in order to get businesses to build in their states. Putting more power in the hands of the states will only increase this competition.

I still don't see how Ron Paul is good for anyone other than the interests of big business.

I would like to see a president that says to businesses "If you want to do business in our country our people will see be payed a livable wage and be able to afford health care" I would also like to see that president say "You cannot relocate and split up families just to increase your profit margin"

If Ron Paul starts showing me that he has the interests of people, not business as his priority then I'll support him. Until then I'll vote for Kucinich or the Green Party.
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Old 11-19-2007, 10:32 AM
 
384 posts, read 1,132,519 times
Reputation: 197
Odi, not everything is about me me me me me. The role of the government isn't to ensure that your daddy is protected by them.
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