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God, guns and gays - a time honored strategy to get rural America to vote against their own self interests. Not something new and not the last time it will happen. I personally enjoy the hilarious irony of watching poor and middle class rural dwellers get suckered into voting for a New York huckster while claiming that he understands them and will do something to improve their lives. Trump is a member of the same elite club that took away their pensions, stagnated their wages, and outsourced their jobs.
^^^^Says the person who got suckered into voting for Obama just because he said "hope and change". You thought that he would do something to improve your life. I bet you were all excited about the ACA. That turned out to be a real disaster.
It's sort of deliciously ironic that the same middle aged and older voters who are enraged by the browning of America are the same people who will eventually have trouble finding someone to wipe their *** or help them to the bathroom at their nursing home because of a future shortage of labor made worse by a crackdown on immigration.
^^^^This is pure BS.
What you are saying is that your are cheering for "the browning of America" because you think that only "brown" people (there is no such race as "brown people") are only capable of of unskilled labor. That's so untrue.
Americans do those jobs that you think only "brown people" do. My child did that work for a time as did as did her spouse.
"A crackdown on immigration"? Or is this your attempt to blur the lines between legal immigrants and illegal aliens? Are you saying that we should encourage illegal immigration so that "brown people" can work in nursing homes?
What you are saying is that your are cheering for "the browning of America" because you think that only "brown" people (there is no such race as "brown people") are only capable of of unskilled labor. That's so untrue.
Americans do those jobs that you think only "brown people" do. My child did that work for a time as did as did her spouse.
"A crackdown on immigration"? Or is this your attempt to blur the lines between legal immigrants and illegal aliens? Are you saying that we should encourage illegal immigration so that "brown people" can work in nursing homes?
Read what I was saying. The only reason our population is increasing at all is immigration. If you deport all of the DACAs, deport all of their families and then cut legal immigration in half, you're cutting down on the number of future taxpayers who will be needed to support the safety net programs and to provide direct services to the Trumpers who will be in the nursing homes. The shrinkage in the available labor force will (1.) increase the costs of goods and services and (2.) likely lead to shortages in available labor for services to our elder population.
Will evicting illegals and cutting legal immigration raise wages for those now competing with immigrants? Sure, but what percentage of the population would that help? 10%? 20%? Whatever the percentage is, it will be dwarfed by the number of people who will be paying more for those goods and services, and it will lead to spot shortages of labor for low-paying jobs.
Will it stop the demographic change, or "browning of America" that's the driving force behind the anger of so many of the Trumpsters? Hell, no. That was settled 20 or 30 years ago.
So the net effect of a crack down will be minimal and ultimately ineffective and hurt more people than it helps.
That's why Congress collectively ignored the issue for so long. The cure is much worse than the disease.
Last edited by Bureaucat; 09-11-2017 at 12:47 PM..
If YOU think you are so up on what HAS been done and has not been done, as you wouldn't be asking such ignorant question.
It took Obama 19 MONTHS to get O Care passed.
Maybe if you broaden your "news" source you WOULDN'T be so in the dark.
hmm, this site is for discussion and debate, so YES you should tell us.
and the reason you are not is because you know you have only a couple of vague claims you can make and that those who hate trump can crush you in the number of things he has failed to do.
no extreme vetting, it has never happened. turned out Obama did it years ago...
muslim ban was supposed to be buy time for a 90 day plan.... well that was over a long long time ago. where is the plan?
what happened to the other 90 day plan ... ie ISIS and 90 days for trumps "generals" to create a plan...
what about extreme vetting (i am asking again because it was supposed to be soooo important)
what about Repeal and repeal on DAY ONE. Trump swore blind it would be "so easy" and we would "love it" and it would be done "day one".... all lies .
What about the wall, mexico pays? yet no funding, no wall , no mexico paying.
what about a NAFTA do over? Trump made lots of big talk, yet nothing has been delivered and the talks are going nowhere, we are a month in and nothing....
what about an infrastructure plan? Where is it, why is nothing happening there and why has trump not come up with a real plan for infrastructure?
What about bring those jobs back? what movement? what policy has been documented, discussed, changed what new bills are in place or even moving along the process?
so what has trump actually delivered or is in the process of delivering ..
1 Trump picked name off a list for the stolen scotus seat.
2 trump has scared off a lot of migrants as promised.
and that is it.
Trump has not actually done a single other thing that i can think of.
but lets pretend i missed one.
3 trump did that cool thing.
still amounts to nothing of value to the nation or the people who voted for trump. but i can see how trump's active support of racists might have that lot happy enough. and i can see how those who fear migrant workers are feeling somewhat better. and those who want religion to run the nation are likely fine with haven stolen a seat on the scotus for the first time in US history...
so i guess someone who is a religious racist who is scared that brown people might take their min wage job, well i guess they are happiest of all.
as an urban coastal elitist i am disappointed to see trump continuing to sell fear , hate and division so long after his lucky and narrow win. one would think he would have focused on bringing us back together in order to build himself a legacy... but Trump seems too caught up in the daily "fight" to see the big picture. Donald will not officially go down as the only POTUS to date that failed on his first major legislative bill. every other POTUS has done it , except Trump he is the only one to have failed.
^^^^Says the person who got suckered into voting for Obama just because he said "hope and change". You thought that he would do something to improve your life. I bet you were all excited about the ACA. That turned out to be a real disaster.
ACA is a great service, however for 6 years the GOP blocked every attempt to fix it, every attempt to change it. For 6 years your buddies purposely broke in in red state after red state. and one state even renamed it to hide that they were working with Obama and ACA....
Today Trump continues to "break" ACA by not providing the data sets needed by insurers and by cutting funding, reducing access and limiting advisors etc.
ACA or some flavor is the future, fighting it just means your kids and grand kids miss out on a benefit that is vital for the competitiveness of our industries. but i am sure you would rather "win" then generate jobs.
Read what I was saying. The only reason our population is increasing at all is immigration. If you deport all of the DACAs, deport all of their families and then cut legal immigration in half, you're cutting down on the number of future taxpayers who will be needed to support the safety net programs and to provide direct services to the Trumpers who will be in the nursing homes. The shrinkage in the available labor force will (1.) increase the costs of goods and services and (2.) likely lead to shortages in available labor for services to our elder population.
Will evicting illegals and cutting legal immigration raise wages for those now competing with immigrants? Sure, but what percentage of the population would that help? 10%? 20%? Whatever the percentage is, it will be dwarfed by the number of people who will be paying more for those goods and services, and it will lead to spot shortages of labor for low-paying jobs.
Will it stop the demographic change, or "browning of America" that's the driving force behind the anger of so many of the Trumpsters? Hell, no. That was settled 20 or 30 years ago.
So the net effect of a crack down will be minimal and ultimately ineffective and hurt more people than it helps.
That's why Congress collectively ignored the issue for so long. The cure is much worse than the disease.
Per the bolded --- Nope. What you are promoting is nothing but a Ponzi scheme. What happens when those immigrants get old? Do we import even more immigrants? How many people will be too many for you? 1 billion? 2 billion? India has 1 billion plus people and Bangalore doesn't have enough potable water. Is that the future you want for your descendants?
We did fine before we allowed 1 million legal immigrants into this country per year and untold millions of illegals. We will be fine going forward.
"Trumpers"? Grow up. Do you think that those of you who voted for Hillary won't ever need to go into assisted living or nursing homes?
ACA is a great service, however for 6 years the GOP blocked every attempt to fix it, every attempt to change it. For 6 years your buddies purposely broke in in red state after red state. and one state even renamed it to hide that they were working with Obama and ACA....
Today Trump continues to "break" ACA by not providing the data sets needed by insurers and by cutting funding, reducing access and limiting advisors etc.
ACA or some flavor is the future, fighting it just means your kids and grand kids miss out on a benefit that is vital for the competitiveness of our industries. but i am sure you would rather "win" then generate jobs.
Both parties are to blame when it comes to ACA. The democrats, who said we have to pass it to know what is in it, and the republicans who didn't do a thing. You also have to remember that Harry Reid prevented a lot of bills from coming up for a vote in the senate.
ACA is a "great service"? Tell it to those who lost their insurance or had go without because they couldn't afford it. You know darn well that many insurers are opting out of ACA. Then there are the companies who won't hire full-time people because it means that they would have to provide health insurance.
Per the bolded --- Nope. What you are promoting is nothing but a Ponzi scheme. What happens when those immigrants get old? Do we import even more immigrants? How many people will be too many for you? 1 billion? 2 billion? India has 1 billion plus people and Bangalore doesn't have enough potable water. Is that the future you want for your descendants?
We did fine before we allowed 1 million legal immigrants into this country per year and untold millions of illegals. We will be fine going forward.
"Trumpers"? Grow up. Do you think that those of you who voted for Hillary won't ever need to go into assisted living or nursing homes?
Sure, anti-Trumpers grow old too, but we're not the ones raising hell about immigrants, and the Democratic base isn't the one that's overly dependent on the oldest generations of voters. Seniors of both sides are going to have to depend on younger generations to support us with taxes and services when we grow older, and without immigration we are losing population and creating future shortages of young workers. Check out examples of the economies of countries with low birth rates and little immigration to make up the difference. It's not pretty.
Quotes from an article from economist Paul Krugman:
Quote:
To understand why, you need to realize that America, like other advanced economies, is facing a double-barreled demographic challenge thanks to declining fertility.
On one side, an aging population means fewer workers paying taxes to support Social Security and Medicare. Demography is the main reason long-run forecasts suggest problems for Social Security, and an important reason for concerns about Medicare. Driving out young workers who will pay into the system for many decades is a way to make these problems worse.
On the other side, declining growth in the working-age population reduces the returns to private investment, increasing the risk of prolonged slumps like the one that followed the 2008 financial crisis.
Quote:
In short, letting Dreamers work is all economic upside for the rest of our nation, with no downside unless you have something against people with brown skin and Hispanic surnames. Which is, of course, what this is all really about.
Re: post #158 --- It's still a Ponzi scheme---bringing young workers to pay into the system. Then when those young workers become old, then what? Bring in more young ones? When does it end for you? When we have 1 billion people? 2 billion people? Adding more population doesn't equate to prosperity. Just take a look at India.
So...what are you saying? That I have something against "people with brown skin and Hispanic surnames"? If that's what you're saying, if you knew my background, then you would realize that you just made a fool of yourself.
BTW, not all legal immigrants and illegal aliens are "people with brown skin and Hispanic surnames". That certainly doesn't apply to all DACAs. Rather bigoted of you to make such an assumption.
Overpopulation of this country is not the answer. Do you seriously think that we have unlimited potable water and buildable land?
Are you claiming that the GOP was against all these free trade deals? ...........
Doesn't much matter, does it?
They are bad deals. Most of us didn't understand why until Trump came along and explained it. Now, he is in a position to make a better deal. If he does, then good for him/Good for America.
Chattering about who was in favor back when the deal was made is pointless.
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