Why I cannot vote for either Obama or McCain (Ron Paul, Congress, Iraq)
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For many years I have had this feeling like many Americans that it seems that it just doesn’t matter who we vote for, the result is pretty much the same. The economy goes up and down, the US engages in every possible global conflict we can find and if we can’t find one we make one. Each election cycle is fraught with instances of voting irregularities, corruption abounds in nearly every branch of government, and all the while, the people pick one side or the other, point to the other side and say, everything bad is because of the other guy.
I claim that both political factions are the same at the core and to point out why, one only has to put partisanship aside and look at things for what they are. Conservatives have traditionally been the party in favor of smaller government, fiscal responsibility, and laid claim to a higher moral standard. However since Reagan and even before, every republican has expanded government, increased spending, engaged in nation building, and have committed immoral acts. In the case of the Democrats we only have to look back to 2006 when Reid and Pelosi, along with many Democratic incumbents said, “vote for us to end the war in Iraq”. With the public behind them, they were elected into office and have since completely utter failed to provide any oversight of the Executive Branch. In addition to failing to fulfill their promises to end the war, they instead chose to continued to fund and support it by granting nearly every power requested by the White House. Congress has ceded its power of oversight and given it almost entirely to the Executive Branch and in turn has become an institution that has only one concern, and that is to get reelected to a fat paycheck and do nothing.
We have went from a nation that was fashionably called, “The empire of production” in the post WWII years when the vast majority of all the worlds goods were made right here in America. The rest of the world demanded them with vigor and the American worker produced them and ended up in a blossoming middle class. Since about the middle to late 1960’s, we went from a production based empire to the, “Empire of consumption” and has remained this way ever since. We have now come to depend upon foreign nations for our goods, our food, and most importantly, our energy, and every single President since Nixon has promised to give us a sound energy policy, but not one single one has fulfilled this promise.
So when I look to Obama or to McCain, I see a continuation of the empire of consumption, imperialistic mindset that requires us to now occupy nations half the world away in order to maintain our own house. I don’t see either of these candidates desiring to reduce the size of government, reduce the size of our trade deficit that is like 800 billion a year and has grown every single year since the mid 60’s. I don’t see either of these candidates putting forth a sound energy policy that would make the United States independent of foreign sources of energy, and so thus always at the mercy of some backwater third world crap hole full of nutjobs who want nothing more than to kill as many of us as possible. I do not see either of these candidates attempting to bring America back to a world leader in manufacturing production, or technological innovation, all I see is more of the same. We no longer have conservative or liberal, we have a single party known as the incumbent party and we will forever be looking forward to the next President to fix things and giving pass to the one in office for not.
I will leave you with a statement by Andrew J. Bacevich, Professor of International Relations at Boston University, retired Army colonel, and West Point graduate, who I think has one of the most comprehensive views and grasp of the geopolitical and domestic situation that our country is in.
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“The Congress, especially with regard to matters related to national security policy, has thrust power and authority to the executive branch. We have created an imperial presidency. The Congress no longer is able to articulate a vision of what is the common good. The Congress exists primarily to ensure the reelection of members of Congress... As the Congress has moved to the margins, as the President has moved to the center of our politics, the presidency itself has come to be less effective...
Because of this preoccupation, this fascination with the presidency, the President has become what we have instead of genuine politics, instead of genuine democracy... We look to the next President to fix things and, of course, that lifts all responsibility from me to fix things. So one of the real problems with the imperial presidency is that it has hollowed out our politics and, in many respects, has made our democracy a false one. We’re going through the motions of a democratic political system, but the fabric of democracy really has worn very thin.”
While I can certainly understand your concerns, I view the OPPORTUNITY to vote more as a DUTY to those that have sacraficed their lives to allow us that right.
I am from a 4 generation military family, and feel that if others are willing to lay their life down for us to be able to enjoy these freedoms, it is our DUTY to respect these sacrifices, educate ourselves on the best possible option given, and take the time to pull the lever.
Being the mom to 4 kids (and 3 son-in-laws) currently serving our country in uniform, I appreciate and thank each of you that take the time to go and vote, regardless if your vote counted with or against mine. I just want to know that you took the time and effort to recognize the fact that our troops are serving all over the world to protect & defend you and your beliefs.
Having said that, I would not have minded seeing other options on this ballot.
TnHilltopper, You can't just give up man. There will always be ups and downs but we have to play an active role in making sure the overall direction in right. If we're lucky, we'll see change in our life time. But that's not the point. The decisions we make today are for our children. My grandparents never got to see the end of the Cold War.
...What we're trying to do here is not easy, and it will not happen overnight. It is going to take more than big rallies. It's going to require more than rousing speeches. It will also require more than policy papers and positions and Web sites. It is going to require something more, because the problem that we face in America today is not the lack of good ideas. It's that Washington has become a place where good ideas go to die...
... because lobbyists crush them with their money and their influence, because politicians spend too much time trying to score political points and not enough time trying to bridge their differences so we can get something done.
The problem is that we haven't had leaders who can inspire the American people to rally behind a common purpose and a higher purpose. And this is what we need to change today. This is what's hard, and we know this.
While I can certainly understand your concerns, I view the OPPORTUNITY to vote more as a DUTY to those that have sacraficed their lives to allow us that right.
I am from a 4 generation military family, and feel that if others are willing to lay their life down for us to be able to enjoy these freedoms, it is our DUTY to respect these sacrifices, educate ourselves on the best possible option given, and take the time to pull the lever.
Being the mom to 4 kids (and 3 son-in-laws) currently serving our country in uniform, I appreciate and thank each of you that take the time to go and vote, regardless if your vote counted with or against mine. I just want to know that you took the time and effort to recognize the fact that our troops are serving all over the world to protect & defend you and your beliefs.
Having said that, I would not have minded seeing other options on this ballot.
Well I didn't say I would refrain from voting, only that I would refrain from voting for either of the above mentioned. I will likely write in Ron Paul and maybe even toss around the idea of Bob Barr. I will not however, perpetuate a system in which I feel is broken in a core fundamental way.
Everything in American politics centers around the election of a President as though it were a never ending reality TV program, where every news channel issues updates about every word each of these two candidates says as though some profound revelation of God will be placed at our ears. The whole thing has become a sickening grand pageantry of a game show on the order of the Running Man. What is more is that no matter who is elected, the American people nor the Congress will do a damn thing to hold this office accountable in executing the laws of this nation.
We no longer elect a President, we judge a contestant.
While I realize most people don't even bother to read links of supporting evidence, or even posts longer than a sound byte, but for those who may wish to view one of the more amazing interviews in recent times, I suggest watching the interview with Andrew J. Bacevich as well as the whole series of interviews by various scholars concerning the state of the American democracy.
In the case of the Democrats we only have to look back to 2006 when Reid and Pelosi, along with many Democratic incumbents said, “vote for us to end the war in Iraq”. With the public behind them, they were elected into office and have since completely utter failed to provide any oversight of the Executive Branch. In addition to failing to fulfill their promises to end the war, they instead chose to continued to fund and support it by granting nearly every power requested by the White House.
I do not believe "the public" was behind them. The Left was definitely behind them. The strategy the democrats put forth to win those seats against republican incumbants was to put forth conservative democrats. Some were tax cutters, some were pro life. The "theme" of the democrats for the 2006 elections was "a culture of corruption", helped by the Foley and Abramoff scandals.
Given what you know now, that the troop surge has put Iraq on the path to democracy and peace, you believe that the democrats should have had their way by withdrawing all troops in 2007?
Quote:
I don’t see either of these candidates putting forth a sound energy policy that would make the United States independent of foreign sources of energy, and so thus always at the mercy of some backwater third world crap hole full of nutjobs who want nothing more than to kill as many of us as possible.
Well, I happen to believe that McCain offers the most reasonable energy policy of the two. We need a broad based policy that includes tapping into ALL of the resources we have here in THIS nation, including drilling, nuclear, gas,coal, renewables, bio-fuels, wind, solar. The problem has been the democrats willingness to "out-source" our main source of energy. They have blocked for decades the idea of tapping into the massive resources we have in this country. If we had started drilling in the OCS and Anwr 17 years ago, we would not have this problem today.
How long have we been talking about and investing in wind and solar? The idea that somehow wind and solar will replace oil as our main source of energy is ridiculous. So far the investment in those sources as a viable, commonplace source of energy have not come to fruition.
I think we should do it ALL, but we are decades away from weaning ourselves from oil.
I too wish we had a viable third party candidate that could bring the parties together. Unfortunately, the left and the right are so far on the extreme end of the spectrum on basically every issue, that I just don't see that happening.
TnHilltopper, You can't just give up man. There will always be ups and downs but we have to play an active role in making sure the overall direction in right. If we're lucky, we'll see change in our life time. But that's not the point. The decisions we make today are for our children. My grandparents never got to see the end of the Cold War.
Give up, never, only taking a broader view of the state of our democracy. Even while having more conservative tendencies, I do enjoy hearing the things Obama speaks of. America does need to change, it does need a new direction and hopefully one that takes us in a new direction that isn't just different but better. This is hopeful but I'm not holding my breath and have many doubts about his ability to achieve this.
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Originally Posted by sanrene
I too wish we had a viable third party candidate that could bring the parties together. Unfortunately, the left and the right are so far on the extreme end of the spectrum on basically every issue, that I just don't see that happening.
Sanrene, to the other portions of your response, I am of the opinion based upon my reasonably clear memory that the American public was in fact soundly behind Democrats who claimed they would end the war.
McCain's energy policy is merely one of more reliance on foreign energy, greater largess of imperial foreign policy to support a consumer based domestic population. You say that you don't see any viable alternatives on the horizon so will have to rely upon petroleum at least over the next decade. I remember when people said that Kennedy was a kook for suggesting that we go to the moon. They said that not only was it beyond the horizon but that it was impossible, yet we did it in a decade when we had a national goal. I happen to believe that Americans are capable of great things on a massive scale, when we decide that we really want to do something, but I guess I'm just being optimistic here.
Here we are again, in an elections forum and most folks are once again waiting on the next candidate to fix and repair the damage from the current one. We seemed to be trapped in this never ending cycle of always waiting for a savior to fix things for us, be they left or right. Truth is, none ever do and it will eventually only change when the sovereign, you and I demand that our public servants actually serve. Well done is always better than well said.
McCain's energy policy is merely one of more reliance on foreign energy, greater largess of imperial foreign policy to support a consumer based domestic population. You say that you don't see any viable alternatives on the horizon so will have to rely upon petroleum at least over the next decade. I remember when people said that Kennedy was a kook for suggesting that we go to the moon. They said that not only was it beyond the horizon but that it was impossible, yet we did it in a decade when we had a national goal. I happen to believe that Americans are capable of great things on a massive scale, when we decide that we really want to do something, but I guess I'm just being optimistic here.
How is McCain advocating more reliance on foreign energy? He is all for drilling here and now, building more nuclear plants, extracting oil and coal and gas IN THIS COUNTRY. It won't happen overnight, but if we do ALL that, we won't be dependent on foreign sources of energy in the near future.
How long have we been talking aout wind and solar energy? Decades, right? We have invested billions in those technologies - yet the promise of those technologies to meet our energy need have not materialized as expected.
So you believe, as obama does, that given the success of the surge and the path to democracy and peace that strategy has afforded Iraq, you would still be against it?
Read my thread on I.O.U.S.A. and get chills down your spine. It might end up being a call for Ron Paul or someone out of the mainstream.
I will check it out Turbo, sounds interesting.
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Originally Posted by sanrene
So you believe, as obama does, that given the success of the surge and the path to democracy and peace that strategy has afforded Iraq, you would still be against it?
You see Sanrene, this is why I often refuse to discuss anything with you. Where on earth did I say this? Do you see how you attempting to suggest I said something I never did.
What I said was that I like hearing what Obama says about the need for change, hope, and a better direction. I also said that I don't believe he is capable of doing this. I did not however mention anything about agreeing with Obama in Iraq or his views on small tactical issues. You said this, not me.
You illustrate ever so articulately my disgust for partisanship. If I say Bush is an idiot, it isn't because I agree with Reid or Pelosi, it is simply because the man is an idiot. If Hitler used toilet paper, I think some folks would say that toilet paper is thus evil and should be avoided. I will never understand this level of thought, sorry.
success of the surge? McCain tried to convice America that the surge was working by walking in a baghdad market place with 100 troops behind him, 2 gun ships and 2 helicopters.
U.S. Crude Oil Production 5,064,000 barrels/day
U.S. Crude Oil Imports 10,031,000 barrels/day, 5,980,000 barrels/day from OPEC
U.S. Motor Gasoline Consumption 9,286,000 barrels/day
Yea sure let's 'bump up' our oil production and we won't be dependent on foreign sources of energy.
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