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Old 10-04-2008, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,660 posts, read 67,548,962 times
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hack away!

AFP: Obama savages McCain on health care with one month to go
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Old 10-04-2008, 12:49 PM
 
2,265 posts, read 3,733,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post

McCain's health care plan is much better.
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Old 10-04-2008, 12:58 PM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,923 posts, read 8,848,514 times
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After this disaster on Wall street, the next big disaster will be health care and energy, if McCain gets in. America cannot afford to take the risk of McCain's policies in either. He thinks that drilling a few oil wells will stop America's dependance on Oil..Wrong! He thinks that by taxing Health care that he will improve peoples cover... Wrong! He will hand both over to the new greedy CEO's. McCain will never stop the control of elitist Directors etc.
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Old 10-04-2008, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,064 posts, read 18,013,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paullySC View Post
McCain's health care plan is much better.
I agree, but maybe not for the same reasons. I don't believe benefits should be taxed but I absolutely APPLAUD McCain for making the difficult steps in transitioning the provision of health insurance from the employer to the individual and free market, with carrots from the government.

Why is this important? Because saddling businesses with the huge and rising costs of providing employees with insurance is one of the primary reasons the American labor force is very expensive to maintain and the jobs are going overseas. WE NEED TO FIX THIS!

Also, people shouldn't have to worry about worry about keeping benefits if they want to change jobs. When I was diagnosed with a serious illness, I was stuck in my current job even though I found better prospects elsewhere. I couldn't change jobs because the new insurance program at a different company wouldn't cover my pre-existing condition. That limits a person's prospects.

I know of people who suffer with symptoms and illness because they can't afford to get an official diagnosis -- once diagnosed, they have a "pre-existing condition" that will be excluded once they start a job. That's not only unjust -- it's DANGEROUS. McCain's plan addresses pre-existing conditions, as well.

Every year, companies face increased premiums and costs for insuring their employees. This drives down wages and raises. I've worked for small or privately owned companies that would have to announce every year that the raises and bonuses couldn't be as big as they should be because of how the company got slammed in insurance premium increases.

My former employers paid about $300 per month for my health care coverage when I was working. Adding on my child/family coverage cost about $180 per month, for a total of $480 in premiums paid to cover us. McCain's plan would provide someone like me with a $5,000 credit to pay for this; that would leave about $60/month to pay. That's VERY AFFORDABLE. Moreover, without the burden of providing health coverage, companies could pay higher wages, raises, and bonuses.

This is an excellent first step in changing our crazy system. In my mind, there's no middle ground when it comes to health care. Either everyone has to be able to buy their own insurance, divorced from their employment, or we need to go to socialized medicine with a national health service.
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Old 10-04-2008, 01:18 PM
 
2,265 posts, read 3,733,667 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
I agree, but maybe not for the same reasons. I don't believe benefits should be taxed but I absolutely APPLAUD McCain for making the difficult steps in transitioning the provision of health insurance from the employer to the individual and free market, with carrots from the government.

Why is this important? Because saddling businesses with the huge and rising costs of providing employees with insurance is one of the primary reasons the American labor force is very expensive to maintain and the jobs are going overseas. WE NEED TO FIX THIS!

Also, people shouldn't have to worry about worry about keeping benefits if they want to change jobs. When I was diagnosed with a serious illness, I was stuck in my current job even though I found better prospects elsewhere. I couldn't change jobs because the new insurance program at a different company wouldn't cover my pre-existing condition. That limits a person's prospects.

I know of people who suffer with symptoms and illness because they can't afford to get an official diagnosis -- once diagnosed, they have a "pre-existing condition" that will be excluded once they start a job. That's not only unjust -- it's DANGEROUS. McCain's plan addresses pre-existing conditions, as well.

Every year, companies face increased premiums and costs for insuring their employees. This drives down wages and raises. I've worked for small or privately owned companies that would have to announce every year that the raises and bonuses couldn't be as big as they should be because of how the company got slammed in insurance premium increases.

My former employers paid about $300 per month for my health care coverage when I was working. Adding on my child/family coverage cost about $180 per month, for a total of $480 in premiums paid to cover us. McCain's plan would provide someone like me with a $5,000 credit to pay for this; that would leave about $60/month to pay. That's VERY AFFORDABLE. Moreover, without the burden of providing health coverage, companies could pay higher wages, raises, and bonuses.

This is an excellent first step in changing our crazy system. In my mind, there's no middle ground when it comes to health care. Either everyone has to be able to buy their own insurance, divorced from their employment, or we need to go to socialized medicine with a national health service.
I've been lucky, I've had two different employers in the last ten years and they've both paid 100% of my medical/dental. I know my salary gets adjusted for it.

I agree with your points. The credit along with putting the power in the consumers hands instead of government is exactly what we need. Being able to buy insurance across state lines will make the rates drop low.
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Old 10-04-2008, 01:18 PM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,923 posts, read 8,848,514 times
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I do agree that if everyone cannot afford health care then a UHC is the only other option. Healthcare should NOT be the domain of the elite or wealthy.
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Old 10-04-2008, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,064 posts, read 18,013,272 times
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Sorry, forget to add an example of the craziness from my life. Because of the fears of being labeled with a serious "pre-existing condition" that would bite me if I changed jobs, my doctors wouldn't write the diagnosis on my medical records for many years! Under diagnosis, they would simply write down all of the positive tests I had for Lupus without using the word Lupus, LOL.

That worked for me -- I didn't really care how they wrote it up UNTIL I realized that one of the supplemental insurance policies I had provided a sizable lump-sum payout if you were diagnosed with a dread disease and Lupus was one of them! They denied my initial claim because they said I wasn't officially diagnosed with Lupus! I had to start over with a new doctor and tell him it was OK -- actually, important -- to write down my real diagnosis. Doctors are caught up in the jargon game now and some are hesitant to write an official diagnosis, with the fear that it might cause folks to lose their insurance.
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Old 10-04-2008, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Fuquay-Varina
4,003 posts, read 10,843,375 times
Reputation: 3303
Out of curiousity, how did employers get saddled with providing healthcare anyway? Was it an idea of a few companies to lure good employees that has turned into basically a mandate?
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Old 10-04-2008, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,064 posts, read 18,013,272 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
I do agree that if everyone cannot afford health care then a UHC is the only other option. Healthcare should NOT be the domain of the elite or wealthy.
Um, that's not the way it is here. The poor and the wealthy (and the elderly/disabled) get medical care. It's the middle class that is screwed by our current system. And before Medicare provided prescription coverage, it was ONLY the poor who got premium care virtually for free. Medicaid (for the poor) covers EVERYTHING.

Now, don't misread -- I'm GLAD the poor get care. But to characterize our situation as "only the elite get healthcare" is totally wrong.
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Old 10-04-2008, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,064 posts, read 18,013,272 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
After this disaster on Wall street, the next big disaster will be health care and energy, if McCain gets in. America cannot afford to take the risk of McCain's policies in either. He thinks that drilling a few oil wells will stop America's dependance on Oil..Wrong! He thinks that by taxing Health care that he will improve peoples cover... Wrong! He will hand both over to the new greedy CEO's. McCain will never stop the control of elitist Directors etc.
Oh, please. McCain -- and the Republicans -- recognize and support the need for alternative energy. McCain has visited our area a few times recently to laud our commitment to the wind farms. You apparently need to visit us here in West Texas to see how alternative energy is thriving and bringing jobs to our area -- ENCOURAGED by Republican leadership. Meanwhile, the Democrats in South Texas are fighting a proposal for wind farms to be developed there.
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