Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Just want to add that my friends that rent or own rentals find it varies greatly from my experiences as a property manager in the SF Bay Area.
Often it is only the space that is rented... in other words flooring, kitchen, appliances, etc are all typically supplied by the tenant...
Of course there will be a toilet and bathtub and the tenant generally has little to no outside responsibilities except maybe for snow removal and keeping things tidy...
One of my friends owns a 7 flat building and each day a different tenant is responsible for keeping the common areas ship shape or they can pay more to opt out.
I find it fascinating that it is not unusual in the old part of Salzburg or Vienna for tenants to go to Ikea and buy a complete kitchen for a place they only rent.
Living in rented accommodation is at least in Austria, Switzerland and Germany not seen as something second-rate. Protection of tenants is very strict. The landlord for example can't enter your apartment without your consent. He even don't have a key of your apartment.
It's completely normal for people to rent for their whole life without the desire to own a house or condo anytime in the future. As a result people often live for decades in one and the same apartment. For those people it makes a lot of sense to furnish their apartment as individual as possible. So they also prefer to buy their own kitchen.
But if you want to rent an apartment just for a short time, then an apartment that comes without a kitchen is really annoying. For such tenants it's much more convenient how it's handled in the U.S.
I don't know how many apartments in Germany comes without a kitchen. I guess two-thirds don't have a kitchen.
Yes, it is, which is why I chose it. We're comparing high-rent cities with high-rent cities, so it's perfect. Still, the "through the roof" rents still sound cheap for a 2-br., but probably the wages are lower, so I'll take your word for it.
Someone posted how much they pay in Europe (Germany, was it?) for phone/internet/cable TV or whatever, and it was about the same as in the US. US cell phone rates just dropped dramatically, btw, since last year.
In Helsinki you pay easily €1100-1500 for a 2-bedroom flat depending on the location. Though, a factor worth considering is that all flats come with all the appliances except for (usually) a washing machine. You don't have to buy your own stove, fridge or freezer or anything. Most post 1960 blocks have a common laundry so a washing machine is not even a necessity. For example I don't have one, but wash my clothes in the cellar which works like a laundromat. But obviously is only for tenants.
Water price for a person a month is fixed to around 10-20 euros, and with that you can use as much water as can be considered acceptable levels. Pretty much every block in a city is district-heated. That means that heating is included in the rent.
I find it fascinating that it is not unusual in the old part of Salzburg or Vienna for tenants to go to Ikea and buy a complete kitchen for a place they only rent.
What exactly does one do in order to buy a Kitchen. The kitchen of the town-home we rent out to has cabinets, a sink with insinkerator, counter tops and a center island, oven +stove, Fridge. No microwave
I can imagine buying a fridge and possibly a range one time, but do people rip out the cabinets and sink when they leave one apartment to go another one ?? If everyone left the basic items as they are there will be less waste overall.
Living in rented accommodation is at least in Austria, Switzerland and Germany not seen as something second-rate. Protection of tenants is very strict. The landlord for example can't enter your apartment without your consent. He even don't have a key of your apartment.
It's completely normal for people to rent for their whole life without the desire to own a house or condo anytime in the future. As a result people often live for decades in one and the same apartment. For those people it makes a lot of sense to furnish their apartment as individual as possible. So they also prefer to buy their own kitchen.
But if you want to rent an apartment just for a short time, then an apartment that comes without a kitchen is really annoying. For such tenants it's much more convenient how it's handled in the U.S.
I don't know how many apartments in Germany comes without a kitchen. I guess two-thirds don't have a kitchen.
As a property manager I love the idea of renting space and not furnishing a kitchen or being responsible for floors.
At one time 50% of service calls were appliance related... also, tenants can often be very particular when it comes to flooring... I've had people refuse to rent because of hardwood and also because of carpet...
What exactly does one do in order to buy a Kitchen. The kitchen of the town-home we rent out to has cabinets, a sink with insinkerator, counter tops and a center island, oven +stove, Fridge. No microwave
I can imagine buying a fridge and possibly a range one time, but do people rip out the cabinets and sink when they leave one apartment to go another one ?? If everyone left the basic items as they are there will be less waste overall.
My experience is some will take it all with them when vacating... others may strike a deal with the incoming tenant or landlord depending on circumstances.
One of my friends did buy the entire kitchen at a very reasonable price from the outgoing tenant who accepted a medical residency several hundred miles away... she was a working nurse and decided to become a Doctor and a very good one she is.
The Ikea type kitchens are very popular and most all of it knocks down for simpler transport... plus appliances tend to be smaller but they are getting bigger.
What exactly does one do in order to buy a Kitchen. The kitchen of the town-home we rent out to has cabinets, a sink with insinkerator, counter tops and a center island, oven +stove, Fridge. No microwave
I can imagine buying a fridge and possibly a range one time, but do people rip out the cabinets and sink when they leave one apartment to go another one ?? If everyone left the basic items as they are there will be less waste overall.
Some people will install their kitchen, that was implemented in their previous apartment. Or they will buy a new one.
What kitchen people buy depends on many different aspects.
If you plan to stay for many years in the new apartment or house you will most likely buy a better, more expensive kitchen. The most common way is to go to a kitchen dealer and together you will plan your new kitchen. The kitchen is then manufactured in the factory to your specific wishes, delivered to your home, where it's installed by craftsmen.
The largest kitchen manufacturer in Europe is Nobilia. They produce mid-range kitchens with state-of-the-art elements, which are still affordable:
The prices for kitchens range from a few hundred Euros up to more than 100,000 Euro. German kitchens have a good reputation. They are very distinct in design and function. You even can buy them in the U.S.
What if I don't like the color of the kitchen cabinets? Maybe I want a purple colored kitchen instead of the prevalent brown shades
I'm not a fan of these Numbeo cost of living comparisons (some prices seems quite questionable). But according to Numbeo, groceries in Finland are at the current exchange rate about 15% cheaper than in the U.S. When assuming those Numbeo figures are correct, then only Switzerland and Norway have higher grocery prices than the U.S.
One option to compare the food prices within Europe is to look at the prices from Lidl. They operate now in 27 European countries, and are most likely the cheapest grocery store in every European country.
The prices at Lidl in Finland seems on average significant higher than in Germany. Maybe about 20% but that would mean that they are still lower than in the U.S.
aldi is at least 10% cheaper than lidl , i prefer lidl myself and its where i shop but aldi is cheaper and certainly the cheapest supermarket chain in ireland
I think it's different in every European country. In Germany we have a lot of bakeries, independent green grocers and farmers markets, they are still popular but their market share is tiny and is surely not rising. Almost all food is sold in grocery stores, and the market is dominated by just four retailers (Edeka, Schwarz-Gruppe, Rewe and Aldi). Independent butcheries are more and more disappearing. Most people consider the meat and sausage service counter in supermarkets (Edeka or Rewe) as a butchery.
The situation is surely different in other countries like Italy for example. The grocery market there is much more fragmented and people buy more groceries at markets or at independent grocers.
Employment is rising but it's not like a job boom that maybe occur in some American cities. Developments are normally more steady but slowlier. In the last couple of years rents are definitely on the rise in Germany. Here in North Rhine-Westphalia the rents are still pretty affordable. According to the search function at www.immobilienscout24.de:
Median net rent for:
1 bedroom apartments: 395 Euro
2 bedroom apartments: 440 Euro
3 bedroom apartments: 520 Euro
But rents are much higher here in Düsseldorf:
1 bedroom apartments: 640 Euro
2 bedroom apartments: 740 Euro
3 bedroom apartments: 850 Euro
You have to add about 2.50 Euro per m² for additional charges and utilities. And that still don't include the costs for electricity.
Excluding rent and utilities a family of four in Germany needs about 2,500 Euro for a decent lifestyle. A couple (plumber + cleaning women) could achieve a monthly net income of about 3,100 Euro. And they get 400 Euro child allowance. So they have 3,500 Euro disposable income. Deducting the 2,500 Euro that is needed for a decent lifestyle, they could spend just 1,000 Euro for rent, utilities and electricity. That is below the median rent (850 Euro net rent + 250 Euro for utilities + 100 Euro for electricity).
It's still possible to find a decent sized 3 bedroom apartment in Düsseldorf for less than 1,000 Euro (including all utilities) but the supply of such apartments is getting smaller and smaller.
That people lose their apartment because of rising rents is relatively uncommon. In most cases the welfare agency of the city will pay the gap (at least for low income earners). But that's a problem. Here in Düsseldorf we have a large "Großwohnsiedlung" (large area housing estate) with high-rise residential buildings. It's called Hassels-Nord. Most people their live on social benefits or get housing assistance. This housing estate was bought by a large financial investor from Luxembourg. They refurbish all those residential buildings with a new thermal insulation. Such newly added thermal insulations allowed landlords to raise the rent. The evil investor from Luxembourg knows, that his tenants can't afford such rent increases. But they also know that the city will pay these higher rents because the city wouldn't be able to find adequate housing for these people elsewhere. The taxpayers will pay for these greedy investors.
The ghettoization in Düsseldorf is growing. Affluent people move into newly build, fancy state-of-the-art apartments (with net rents starting at 1,500 Euro). And low income earners have to stay in apartments that were built in the 60s. That's really sad.
Overall, housing is still relative affordable in Germany, but it's getting scary in some major cities. Munich is for rents by far the most expensive city in Germany. I don't know how low income earners manage it there. Net rents for a 3 bedroom apartment starts at about 950 Euro and the median rent for such apartments is above 1,500 Euro.
Estimated expenses that are needed for a decent lifestyle for a family of four:
Groceries: 500 Euro
Household supplies: 50 Euro
TV, Internet, phone, cell phone plans: 100 Euro
Clothing: 200 Euro
Car: 400 Euro
Public transportation: 100 Euro
Pocket money for the kids: 100 Euro
Personal care: 100 Euro
Entertainment. leisure activities; 200 Euro
Furniture, appliances: 200 Euro
Vacation, travel: 200 Euro
Other expenses: 150 Euro
Savings: 200 Euro
Total: 2,500 Euro
That's the minimum, everything below is surely not decent. And that doesn't include housing and utilities.
rents in dusseldorf are about half what they are in dublin judging by your figures
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
