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This thread is not about white guilt anymore. It is how the OP is treated sooooooo horribly and given the "evil eye" while labeling all Germanic cultures as awful.
I will retract my opinion when an Ethnically White German driver offers me food with his family when hitchhiking like most Turkish drivers do when people hitchhike there or when people in the store lines and bus stops in Germanic societies become friendly and involve in small and big talk with random strangers. I've never seen a Dutch woman to speak to another woman and to get her number right there so they can continue their sweet talk and later become friends. Just does not happen. I've yet to see this. In the NL friendships are based on who you met back in school and in cliques, so random strangers are not potential friends like they are in Turkey, Bulgaria, Spain, Italy, Portugal and even most of the USA. For this reason random strangers in train stations, bus stops, etc. generally avoid speaking to others and you get one sad, depressed, isolated society where people are afraid to come out of their comfort zone and to engage in friendly talk with strangers. I bet something like two people meeting and falling in love on a bus or a train (Before Sunrise-style) or finding your BFF that way would never happen in the Netherlands. Yet, this happens all the time in Italy, Bulgaria, Portugal, Spain... Ask me how I know!
No, it's not looking down. I just avoid them due to horrible past experiences of being treated like crap. If you notice that some people constantly abuse you, you start avoiding them.
Yes, sorry, I don't mean Italians, Spanish or Portuguese, I am talking about mostly some Anglo-Saxon, but mostly about all the non-English, Germanic-language speaking people of Benelux and all other states where people speak a Germanic language. I think France might be so-so. I don't include Spain, Italy and Portugal when I say W.E. as they don't have the same superiority complex and seem to be friendly/warmer people in general.
It's also always in 99% of cases that white/Caucasian people that treat me like crap. Only once a Black guy looked at me with an evil/angry look. I don't think it's a coincidence that the friendliest Dutch people I've met are all ethnically from Iran, Iraq, Eastern Europe or with some mixed origin (it's evidently not completely White Dutch but I don't ask about things like that, so I don't know or care exactly what origin, just not 100% White Dutch). But, oh when it comes to White Dutch people, I could write a book about being treated as a subhuman. And I'm not even visually that different from them. I'm very pasty/White-skinned, so I don't look exotic or something. I guess passing for one of them, yet being NOT from the Netherlands is the greatest sin in their eyes LOL.
Some? In 99% of my experiences of communicating with White Dutch people, I was treated like subhuman. The nice White Dutch people are like 2 or 3. Out of hundreds. It's really one of the unfriendliest to expat countries. No wonder many expats refuse to learn Dutch. Why bother, when they'll never accept you anyway? Sure, I don't have that much experience with Scandinavians and Germans, but I am willing to bet they share similar cultures.
Abused. Confused. Avoided. Unwelcome. Cold. Oppressed. are words that come up to me when describing my Dutch experience. Sure, they did not beat me up like they would in some other parts of the world, but they did not embrace me the way most US people would. If by tolerant Dutch they meant indifferent, will not beat you up, sure. But definitely not friendly, interested in others or embracing.
It's not you, Germanic people are just generally closed off and reserved. If you prefer a more "extroverted" kind of country then go to Celtic countries or The New World.
The English do sometimes have a superiority complex sometimes but I think that comes from ignorance and is most likely a remnant of the British Empire.
I will retract my opinion when an Ethnically White German driver offers me food with his family when hitchhiking like most Turkish drivers do when people hitchhike there or when people in the store lines and bus stops in Germanic societies become friendly and involve in small and big talk with random strangers. I've never seen a Dutch woman to speak to another woman and to get her number right there so they can continue their sweet talk and later become friends. Just does not happen. I've yet to see this. In the NL friendships are based on who you met back in school and in cliques, so random strangers are not potential friends like they are in Turkey, Bulgaria, Spain, Italy, Portugal and even most of the USA. For this reason random strangers in train stations, bus stops, etc. generally avoid speaking to others and you get one sad, depressed, isolated society where people are afraid to come out of their comfort zone and to engage in friendly talk with strangers. I bet something like two people meeting and falling in love on a bus or a train (Before Sunrise-style) or finding your BFF that way would never happen in the Netherlands. Ask me how I know!
Not everyone who has small talk will be polite in the U.S. There tends to be fake people. The other day I had small talk with a women while we were in a restaurant by the bar area. She started talking to me first so we spoke for a good 10 min. She took my number but never called which I kind of expected would happen because not everyone is kind enough to call you and want to be your friend. Sometimes people who small talk are bored and you are just a convenience for them at the moment until their friend shows up or until they have to go somewhere else.
It's very rare to meet someone the old fashioned way and form a relationship that way. Most people where I'm from just stay on facebook.
Not even Irene during her period can come up witch such idiotic and ignorant assumptions.
I'm gonna report this thread. It's completely pointless.
Because it's not a part of our cultures.
The OP should open a new thread, instead of hijacking his own; he could start a thread about culture shock, and then maybe someone could help him. I've wondered from time to time, how Slavs manage to adjust to living in Germanic countries--the Russian brides in Sweden and elsewhere, for example. The OP is opening a small window onto that cultural divide.
GymFanatic, what do you mean like Celtic countries? The Isles?
I think by memories despite their b-ing about EE, the British at least were never really rude, it was mostly some passing remarks. Nothing serious, really. I was never treated like s*** and that was the supposedly crazy and rude London! Good memories, I would go there on vacation probably. But the Dutch, oh boy, I am just hoping I get my degree and I will never come back once I leave!
I myself might be considered slightly reserved by some people, yet I love when the society is open and not reserved at all. It makes me feel welcomed and warm inside (and thus, much more likely to embrace their culture as my culture and become interested in peaceful, long-term living there). I don't think I could live longer in the NL than 2-3 years and that's pushing it, locals are just too reserved, uninterested really.
Heck, it really IS a lonely society if you have never met a talkative stranger telling you their life story on a bus here for 3 years! And I bet this happens all the time in Southern, many Eastern European countries and even in Britain and the USA. I know I am not imagining things, so far for 3 years no one has approached me on a bus stop; they do all the time in my home country. Friendly and talkative Dutch strangers, where are you?
Ireland, Wales and Scotland. You say that you would be able to hold a conversation with someone on the bus but I very much doubt that, maybe with an old person but that's that.
English people don't generally speak to strangers unless absolutely necessary. If you were to strike up a conversation with a stranger here they'd probably think that you were mentally ill. Their society is weird when it comes to contact with the public.
I don't know why they're like that here.. It's kinda weird and goes against human nature.. I mean as humans we thrive off contact.
Not even Irene during her period can come up witch such idiotic and ignorant assumptions.
I'm gonna report this thread. It's completely pointless.
Because it's not a part of our cultures.
Why report it?
Saying Germans are closed off and reserved is not far from the truth.
Or is freedom of speech only allowed when Westerners have to complain about Eastern people having different values? Come on, if you find that drivers in Bulgaria are reckless and Bulgarian society is more patriarchal I would not report your thread, as that's true. And another truth is that Germanic societies are cold and downright avoidant in their treatment of strangers. You can embrace liberal values and still be friendly to strangers and talk to them, you know? Just look at the USA (sure, they have many problems, but still) - I bet I'll experience more friendly small talk in liberal San Francisco than in supposedly liberal Amsterdam or Berlin. Heck, they say even New Yorkers might be more open to small talk. To me liberal values and small talk/openness to strangers are not two mutually exclusive things, but I guess in the Netherlands et al. they are for some weird reason. As a Finnish person, didn't you learn to be more open and warm to strangers from immigrants? Both sides have something to learn from one another.
"Not part of our cultures"
And you claim you're a liberal?! Look at the USA, they have some core values and culture, BUT it's ever-changing and evolving. So you basically say, your culture is so good as to never change or evolve? Come on, it sure needs more change on the friendliness/compassion scale! It's not that perfect, despite the wealth and all the fancy liberal talk (which is mostly talk and no action/embracing).
"English people don't generally speak to strangers"
Sure, but they're also usually not rude to strangers. Much more pushing/disregarding/evil eye looks in the Lowlands. I feel no compassion towards me from most Dutch people.
They don't adapt. It's a way to escape poverty.
But I'm the type of person that thrives better on compassion and friendliness/openness of locals. I want to be surrounded by people that approach me and show me they are open to strangers. It's heart-warming, it gives you hope that not all people are deranged psychos and the world is not coming to an end. It also diminished nostalgia and loneliness.
I guess I'm not materialistic enough to trade this for more money. And even then there are better options - the USA, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Hungary, Czech republic, Slovakia - more money than in my country, yet people seem friendlier in general than in the Germanic societies. BTW, most of the Bulgarians that like the Netherlands are materialistic - they'd trade their soul for a higher salary. No surprise why they like it. But for me that's not enough.
Why report it?
Saying Germans are closed off and reserved is not far from the truth.
Or is freedom of speech only allowed when Westerners have to complain about Eastern people having different values? Come on, if you find that drivers in Bulgaria are reckless and Bulgarian society is more patriarchal I would not report your thread, as that's true. And another truth is that Germanic societies are cold and downright avoidant in their treatment of strangers. You can embrace liberal values and still be friendly to strangers and talk to them, you know? Just look at the USA (sure, they have many problems, but still) - I bet I'll experience more friendly small talk in liberal San Francisco than in supposedly liberal Amsterdam or Berlin. Heck, they say even New Yorkers might be more open to small talk. To me liberal values and small talk/openness to strangers are not two mutually exclusive things, but I guess in the Netherlands et al. they are for some weird reason. As a Finnish person, didn't you learn to be more open and warm to strangers from immigrants? Both sides have something to learn from one another.
"English people don't generally speak to strangers"
Sure, but they're also usually not rude to strangers. Much more pushing/disregarding/evil eye looks in the Lowlands. I feel no compassion towards me from most Dutch people.
You simply don't connect with the culture it isn't a good fit for you(honestly it would be a bad fit for me as well). It sounds like you're feeling disconnected and are personalizing it (granted indifference is difficult to get used if you are used to warmness). It sounds like a great learning experience.
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Ask me how I know!
To me liberal values and small talk/openness to strangers are not two mutually exclusive things, but I guess in the Netherlands et al. they are for some weird reason. As a Finnish person, didn't you learn to be more open and warm to strangers from immigrants? Both sides have something to learn from one another.
BTW, most of the Bulgarians that like the Netherlands are materialistic - they'd trade their soul for a higher salary. No surprise why they like it. But for me that's not enough.
