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Overall I see the situation remaining fairly stable.
The francophone side has a historical legacy of dominating Belgian but this is fading - though very slowly. There are the immigrants and also the "European" crowd in the Brussels also who tend to speak French (as a first or second language) quite a bit more than Flemish. And of course French is more of an international language than Flemish (Dutch) is.
On the other hand Flemish has quite a bit more people outright and for the past couple of decades has had economics on its side. I believe the Flemish population also has a higher birth rate than the francophone population.
"France" isn't doing anything internally in Belgium. Belgian francophones... sure.
That's what I meant. Most Wallinians are not opposed to this idea.
Brussels is special and probably remain so until the EU makes the rational decision to move the EU capital somewhere else, maybe all to Luxembough or Strasbourg.
That's what I meant. Most Wallinians are not opposed to this idea.
Brussels is special and probably remain so until the EU makes the rational decision to move the EU capital somewhere else, maybe all to Luxembough or Strasbourg.
Obviously Wallons and francophone Bruxellois won't be opposed to their own language flourishing. This is normal for anyone.
As for moving the EU capital, I doubt this will happen. Or at least, if it moves it won't be to either of those two cities.
Luxembourg (fairly or unfairly) is viewed as bit of "shady finance" capital. No way the EU would want to base its bureaucracy there.
Strasbourg? They already have the EU parliament, so I doubt the members would want to concentrate even more power in a single EU country (which is already the second biggest and very powerful, and soon to be even less challenged as such with the exit of the UK).
As such Brussels is probably as good a choice as any for the EU capital.
In an alternate reality I could see a city like Geneva being a suitable choice but of course the Swiss aren't part of the EU.
It started off as a mostly Dutch country but then the French captured what is now the seat of the European Union and Belgium's capital city. Given the relevance of Brussels it shouldn't surprise anyone that the surrounding communities switch to French as well, no?
What about Luxembourg? Do they speak a lot of French?
Did you read some bs Flemish nationalist article or ?
I don't know where the hell did you read this because that's just laughable. First Belgium was never a "mostly Dutch country" and the French never captured Brussels...
If anything, Belgium became more and more a Dutch-speaking country in its institutions, especially the last 20 years. What we are looking at is the take-over of the Flemish community at all level of power, Francophones being largely marginalized more and more for decades now.
Oh, and roman/langue d'oil/French language are spoken since the Roman Empire, they are not recent "invaders" contrary to what some Flemish nationalists like to make believe.[CENTER]Enregistrer[/CENTER]
French lost their position, once it was dominant language of Belgium and Wallonia was the richer part, today Flanders is richer part, larger part and don ´t forget immigration, so many foreign people with different languages, actually French position is much weaker than ever. Look at language statistics, now more people know English than French in Flanders.
Btw Brussels is special case, yes it is located in Flanders, mostly French speaking city, but it is basically global/EU city with very high share of foreigners so not exactly sign of French position in Belgium.
^ this
Don't listen to Flemish nationalist sources who make themselves sound like special little snowflakes ready to be invaded anytime by francophone aliens from outerspace.
Did you read some bs Flemish nationalist article or ?
I don't know where the hell did you read this because that's just laughable. First Belgium was never a "mostly Dutch country" and the French never captured Brussels...
Maybe the French from France did not but Brussels did eventually transition from a mainly Flemish speaking city to a mainly French speaking city because the Belgian kingdom was functioning in the French language, and Brussels was its capital.
I like to joke that the typical name for a francophone Bruxellois these days is something like Jean-François Van Biesbrouck.
Other than that, French never eradicated or replaced Flemish in most of Flanders even if there was a "dominator-dominee" relationship between the two languages.
One language that French did replace is Wallon in southern Belgium. But of course Wallon is related to the languages to the south (French and French-related), not to the Germanic ones like Flemish/Dutch and German.
Let's say that 2/3 of the territory and the capital is French-speaking, so yes French is important , but the 1/3 remaining , Flemish, is more densely packed and is not ready to give up its language anytime soon.
Flemish is no language. It's a mere dialect. It's purely Dutch.
And nope, Belgium will always remain with a Dutch majority. Flanders is the economical power of Belgium and it's more populated...
Maybe the French from France did not but Brussels did eventually transition from a mainly Flemish speaking city to a mainly French speaking city because the Belgian kingdom was functioning in the French language, and Brussels was its capital.
I like to joke that the typical name for a francophone Bruxellois these days is something like Jean-François Van Biesbrouck.
Those kind of names prove that whatever their language, francophone Bruxellois are the historical inhabitants of their city and not "walloon/french immigrants" (the main region of migration to Brussels was West-Flanders anyway), Brussels is their historical city; they are not "invaders" who "captured" Brussels. Language switching doesn't mean people switching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack
Other than that, French never eradicated or replaced Flemish in most of Flanders even if there was a "dominator-dominee" relationship between the two languages.
There is a relationship of domination between every major languages towards local languages since the 19th century: French towards Vlaams/Wallon/Picard/Basque etc... and now it's Standard Dutch (ABN) which is dominant towards all the different lowland dialects; and English towards everything else. I don't know why people are triggered by French in particular.
French-speaking minorities (usually upper bourgeois) have always historically existed in Flemish cities like Antwerp or Ghent (even many Dutch cities), yet they have disappeared in the past 50 years; mostly turned Dutch-speakers or gone. The process of Dutchification was as strong as the other way round.
There is a relationship of domination between every major languages towards local languages since the 19th century: French towards Vlaams/Wallon/Picard/Basque etc... and now it's Standard Dutch (ABN) which is dominant towards all the different lowland dialects; and English towards everything else. I don't know why people are triggered by French in particular.
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Well, I personally am not "triggered by French" anyway.
French-speaking minorities (usually upper bourgeois) have always historically existed in Flemish cities like Antwerp or Ghent (even many Dutch cities), yet they have disappeared in the past 50 years; mostly turned Dutch-speakers or gone. The process of Dutchification was as strong as the other way round.
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