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is there a reason "muslims" can't convert to a different religion as they grow up?
No, they can. And apparently, do. Of course, for many I’m sure it’s at least partially for immigration purposes as it can lead to an asylum claim, but it does happen.
Yes, I know. But I’m not talking about the secularization of society... more so the effect seen in Western Europe of people becoming increasingly less religious. The secularization of the individual, if you will.
Secularization of society and people becoming less religious go hand in hand. Like in the Christian faith it’s all about the interpretation of the religion in today’s conditions. I think if the nations the Muslims immigrated from become more secular, the migrants become more secular too obviously. Also education and sermons in Mosques are also very important factors. But the secularity of countries the immigrants came from is extremely important because most have family there.
Secularization of society and people becoming less religious go hand in hand. Like in the Christian faith it’s all about the interpretation of the religion in today’s conditions. I think if the nations the Muslims immigrated from become more secular, the migrants become more secular too obviously. Also education and sermons in Mosques are also very important factors. But the secularity of countries the immigrants came from is extremely important because most have family there.
All good points. However I think Iran is somewhat of a counterexample. Iran is one of the most fiercely religious countries yet Iranians seem to integrate and often secularize and have no problem in other countries across the globe. It’s actually quite rare to see attacks by Iranian nationals, or even radicalization, even though the US considers the country to be a state sponsor of terrorism. Iran has had a very chaotic relationship with Islam however and has retained a culture that in ways predates it (like Turkey).
Secularization of society and people becoming less religious go hand in hand. Like in the Christian faith it’s all about the interpretation of the religion in today’s conditions. I think if the nations the Muslims immigrated from become more secular, the migrants become more secular too obviously. Also education and sermons in Mosques are also very important factors. But the secularity of countries the immigrants came from is extremely important because most have family there.
Not really. The whole point of it is that it protects the will of the people in pursuing their own beliefs free of government intrusion and meddling. There's no causal interrelationship or entailment between political secularism and naturalism.
The way it's used today, it's basically a "small government" safeguard, much like separation of powers, checks and balances, etc.
All good points. However I think Iran is somewhat of a counterexample. Iran is one of the most fiercely religious countries yet Iranians seem to integrate and often secularize and have no problem in other countries across the globe. It’s actually quite rare to see attacks by Iranian nationals, or even radicalization, even though the US considers the country to be a state sponsor of terrorism. Iran has had a very chaotic relationship with Islam however and has retained a culture that in ways predates it (like Turkey).
You know most Iranians who are out of the country right now are there because they are opposed to the regime in Iran right?
Not really. The whole point of it is that it protects the will of the people in pursuing their own beliefs free of government intrusion and meddling. There's no causal interrelationship or entailment between political secularism and naturalism.
The way it's used today, it's basically a "small government" safeguard, much like separation of powers, checks and balances, etc.
I really did not undertsand what you wrote. I also don’t know what naturalism means. Can you elaborate?
There are only three ways in which you can have an absence of belief in something beyond the natural world:
1. Metaphysical naturalism. ["there is nothing beyond the natural world"]
2. Epistemological naturalism. ["the whole question is meaningless or non-cognitive"]
3. Agnosticism ["don't know"]
If it's not the first two, then you're an agnostic. Agnosticism doesn't really qualify as a type of ontological secularism under the academic definition, but you're free to define it that way on a personal basis.
Ok, let’s not go down the rabbit hole. What I’m referring to is the effect of becoming less religious or not religious. That may or may not require changing your “beliefs”. I’m speaking from a pragmatic point of view. Examples would be “I was Christian but now I’m an atheist.” But it could also be: “I still consider myself Muslim but I don’t say prayers and don’t go to the mosque” or “I only go to church on Christmas” etc.
Ok, let’s not go down the rabbit hole. What I’m referring to is the effect of becoming less religious or not religious. That may or may not require changing your “beliefs”. I’m speaking from a pragmatic point of view. Examples would be “I was Christian but now I’m an atheist.” But it could also be: “I still consider myself Muslim but I don’t say prayers and don’t go to the mosque” or “I only go to church on Christmas” etc.
It's kind of pointless trying to set a separate practical definition of secularism independent of any philosophical commitment or justification. Like asking, "Why did you just graffiti that wall?", and the guy replies, "Dunno, I just felt like it".
The term used for this is "areligiosity", as set apart from spirituality. "Secularism" in this context usually refers to the philosophical underpinnings. You can define it however you like, though, as long as you make it clear what you're talking about.
Last edited by Hightower72; 12-01-2017 at 01:48 AM..
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