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Non independence supporters won by almost 53%, while independence supporters lost with 47%. The majority of Catalans expressed their will to stay in Spain yesterday.
Perhaps, the ruling elections law in Spain is the D'Hondt law. Independence supporters have 4 additional seats in the Catalan regional parliament. This means that pro-independence parties still hold a majority even after being defeated and lost by 7% compared to non-independence supporting parties. Votes coming from towns and rural areas count more than votes coming from cities.
Barcelona: The province and the city of Barcelona had a turnout of almost 60% going to pro-Spain parties, being the 1st Ciudadanos. Pro-independence support was also slightly lower than in 2015.
Historical win for Ciudadanos, the most pro-Spain party which has a Spanish flag in it's own logo. Ciudadanos won the Catalan regional elections with 25.4%, winning for the 1st time in history (since the Spanish democracy began in 1975) any nationalistic or pro-independence Catalan party. With the votes of Ciudadanos+PSC+PP+ECP the non-independence supporters made almost 53% of the total votes, but their representation is 3 seats under the majority, while the independence supporters surpass by 2 (70 seats, 68 required) to form a majority. Still, 4 of those independence supporters are a radical far-left anti-capitalism, pro-communism and anti-EU party so it's hard for the other pro-independence supporters to form a coalition with those ones.
In overall, the results are: (NO and YES means their support to the independence movement)
Ciudadanos, 25.4% and 37 seats NO
JUNTSxCAT, 21.6% and 34 seats YES
ERC, 21.4% and 32 seats YES
PSC, 13.9% and 17 seats NO
ECP, 7.4% and 8 seats NO
CUP, 4.4% and 4 seats YES
PP, 4.2% and 3 seats NO
non-independence supporters: 65 seats, 53% of votes
pro-independence supporters: 66 seats, 47% of votes
- radical pro-independence supporters: 4 seats, included in those 47% from above
Strange times will come in the most disputed Catalan regional election in the history, as the Catalan society is entirely split between 2 sides. Strange voting law, from the 1st to the 2nd party there is a difference of 4% yet they only have a difference of 3 seats. Something is clear, a majority of Catalans want to stay in Spain compared to those who don't, so independence won't happen. Maybe a 3rd way?
Pro-independence parties have 70 seats out of 135, with 47% of votes.
Non-independence parties have 65 seats out of 135, with 53% of votes.
A bit unfair for the majority (53% vs 47%, that's 6% of difference) to have a ruling government which is completely against their will, isn't it? Considering that 1/4 of votes went directly to the 2nd most Spanish nationalistic party of Spain, which is also curiously a Catalan party, that makes you think... More than 1/2 of those votes went to parties who reject independence, yet it was very close.
Catalans are a divided society, with a small "advantage" for people who still want to be a part of Spain. Here you have a lot of information about the elections, use a translating software: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elecci...aluña_de_2017
Well, why do you post that in your title, when the votes as such don't mean anything, but the delegates in parliament do?
The election system is the way it is, probably to avoid too much dominance of urban over rural areas. It was the same with the US elections, where I think Clinton got more votes, but not delegates.
Well, why do you post that in your title, when the votes as such don't mean anything, but the delegates in parliament do?
The election system is the way it is, probably to avoid too much dominance of urban over rural areas. It was the same with the US elections, where I think Clinton got more votes, but not delegates.
My title is correct. "Anti-independence parties won by votes with 53%. Spanish party wins."
- Anti-independence support gathered 53%, that makes a simple majority.
- A Spanish party won, Citizens/Ciudadanos, with more than 1/4 of the votes. 25.4% exactly.
That's true in both cases, although with the actual voting law, the pro-independence parties have more seats even with an inferior support, 6% to be exact. I'm just informing clearly what happened, if you see I explained it all in the 1st post, as there is a lot of confussion about this topic right now. Independence supporters lost, they didn't manage to get 50+1% of votes, but they won in seats.
So the majority of Catalans don't want to leave Spain, yet they will have to support a government against the will of 53% them. My point is that independence won't happen and we will see some strange events during 2018 in Catalonia, because any independence tryout won't be supported by the majority of Catalans. So that's why i'm asking, maybe a 3rd way to solve this problem? Because it's strange...
After thinking it better: It's either a change of the voting system or this will never end.
There is a simple majority of those who don't support independence, yet rural vote counts more. Independence is not possible as seen this last October, Spain won't pass through illegal actions.
Also because the will of the majority of Catalans are against this. The Spanish Constitution doesn't allow a referendum, so those elections were used like one according to the Spanish media. Catalans wanting to stay in Spain won by 6 points (53 vs 47%) yet they got less seats. Pro-independence leaders, just like Puigdemont, will be still in prison because they broke various constitutional laws. So this means that Catalonia will have a never ending problem in their government? At this point, I don't think that any person supporting or against the independence will change their votes, as it's not possible as well.
PS: This is the 1st time on the regional Catalan parliament where a Catalan nationalistic/pro-independence party doesn't win the elections. Not even a middle path, directly a Spanish nationalistic one. From 1975 to 2017 the Catalan parliament was always ruled by nationalistic or pro-independence parties, and it wasn't bad. The nationalists may rule now just if they forget the independence thing?
Again, the number of votes is irrelevant. People have no direct say in politics, it is their representation via parliament, and that is majority pro-independence. You may not like that election system, but you can't change it. There are reasons why it is the way it is. It's not because someone implemented it with some hideous agenda.
Again, the number of votes is irrelevant. People have no direct say in politics, it is their representation via parliament, and that is majority pro-independence. You may not like that election system, but you can't change it. There are reasons why it is the way it is. It's not because someone implemented it with some hideous agenda.
It's not if I like it or not, i'm indifferent about what happens in Catalonia. That's not my main point.
My main point is that independence lost in votes/percentage, compared to 51 vs 49% from 2015, now it's 53% vs 47%. That's more votes for anti-independence parties.
I'm just asking what could happen, because it's clear that the majority of Catalans don't want to split up from Spain, those ones rejecting the independence won by 6%, that's like 300.000 people, not a question of hundreds of people. But they will have a government against their will, so i'm asking, it will go like it happened since 1975 unless in this year, with Catalan nationalistic parties ruling but
forgetting the independence thing, or they will still promote this independence thing to an endless path, because it's clear that they don't have enough support, they can't just declare it.
They can't self-declare independence. Puigdemont did it for 8 seconds and it's now far from home, he ran like a coward after he thought he was above the Spanish Constitution. For his fault, the Catalan ruling party was dismissed by politicians implemented by the Spanish central government. Pro-independence parties can't do whatever they want, as well as they don't have a major support in the streets.
It's not a government against people's will. That's what you don't get. You just count heads, neglecting the fact that a rural farmer's vote counts slightly more than a city dweller's vote. And that different weight is deliberate.
Regarding what will happen, no idea, the pro-independence parties might form a government. Just because a party got most delegates does not mean it will lead the government. Same here in Portugal, the party that got most votes in the last elections ended up in the opposition because the other, smaller parties formed a kind of coalition.
Well, why do you post that in your title, when the votes as such don't mean anything, but the delegates in parliament do?
The election system is the way it is, probably to avoid too much dominance of urban over rural areas. It was the same with the US elections, where I think Clinton got more votes, but not delegates.
Yes, you are right Clinton received a larger percentage of the popular vote, but as you know the U.S. has this Electoral College relic which means that one-person/one-vote is not in fact the case due to the way the Electoral College is composed.
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