What's left for Europe? (life, country, place, jobs) - City-Data Forum

mihael · 03-23-2018, 01:37 AM

I left my last job at an American-owned company in Europe (most companies are being bought by overseas companies now) as it was moved to India. With starting corporate jobs being moved to Asia and innovation and ownership being mostly American (most of the top companies are US-owned) what is left for Europe? Most countries have become deindustrialized. Don't say tourism as we see how that works for the Mediterranean countries. Due to fragmented cultures of different values and languages we don't have the power and resource to export culture like the USA does. I'm starting to think that in the Global affairs European countries are becoming culturally and politically irrelevant. Maybe only the UK and Germany have some standing, but the others are looking for a big brother to attach themselves to (usually the US or Russia). It's like Cold war pt 2 where Europeans live in lala land where they pretend everything is OK and that outside of Europe they are important, but I have the feeling it's all smoke and mirrors and today it's all about the USA, China and Russia. Is the tribalism of European societies and the nation state ideas to blame? It's like we're the white man's version of Africa where each tribe hates the next one and we want separation (see Catalonia).

Pokitobounto · 03-23-2018, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mihael

I left my last job at an American-owned company in Europe (most companies are being bought by overseas companies now) as it was moved to India. With starting corporate jobs being moved to Asia and innovation and ownership being mostly American (most of the top companies are US-owned) what is left for Europe? Most countries have become deindustrialized. Don't say tourism as we see how that works for the Mediterranean countries. Due to fragmented cultures of different values and languages we don't have the power and resource to export culture like the USA does. I'm starting to think that in the Global affairs European countries are becoming culturally and politically irrelevant. Maybe only the UK and Germany have some standing, but the others are looking for a big brother to attach themselves to (usually the US or Russia). It's like Cold war pt 2 where Europeans live in lala land where they pretend everything is OK and that outside of Europe they are important, but I have the feeling it's all smoke and mirrors and today it's all about the USA, China and Russia. Is the tribalism of European societies and the nation state ideas to blame? It's like we're the white man's version of Africa where each tribe hates the next one and we want separation (see Catalonia).

American company in Europe, moving to India... You got fired?

What's left to Europe? A lot. A lot more than you can accept in your anger...

mihael · 03-23-2018, 02:55 AM

No, they moved 5 positions to India. It's a clerical job, processing orders.
Lots of starting jobs are disappearing. You can't become a manager out of college with no experience, ya know?
Why Europeans get so butt hurt that someone wants to ditch Europe? All Europeans seem to get offended. Europe is a mismatch for my personality, so what!? I have the right to spend my time with Asian, Australian and American people if I wish so and like Melbourne more than Paris or London.
And yes, both Trump and Putin have more power than Frau Merkel. And she has the most power from all European leaders so the others are just personas non gratas. Think about it, Netherlands might be very rich but who really cares about Dutch culture and politics outside of themselves? Europe is now seen as just a Disney land-like place for tourism to most people from all over the world. But architecture cannot substitute for terrible/rude customer service and unfriendly locals that rarely engage in small talk with strangers.

"A dozen or so Japanese tourists a year have to be repatriated from the French capital, after falling prey to what's become known as "Paris syndrome". That is what some polite Japanese tourists suffer when they discover that Parisians can be rude or the city does not meet their expectations." - happened to me all over Europe and I'm not even Asian. I guess I'm just too polite and friendly and expect the same.

But back on topic - outside of Merkel, European leaders are NO ONE when it comes to their global position. Even she is of much lower significance than the POTUS and the Russian president. As Asian places are gaining traction like China, they might surpass the EU leadership in Global dominance.

TheDentist · 03-23-2018, 07:10 AM

Blablabla... the Dutch... blablabla... Frau Merkel... blabla.... Japanese tourists.

Pokitobounto · 03-23-2018, 10:39 AM

"Lots of starting jobs are disappearing. You can't become a
manager out of college with no experience, ya know?"

What you thought a company would give you a project and a team of 10 people to manage because you did 3 internships and have a master? Lol! The job market is transforming. If you are an IT guy for example, don't dare tell me jobs are disappearing. The unemployment rate is negative. Took me 3 months after University to find a job, a good one. In France, 8.6% of unemployment (which is high)

"Why Europeans get so butt hurt that someone wants to ditch Europe? All Europeans seem to get offended. Europe is a mismatch for my personality, so what!? I have the right to spend my time with Asian, Australian and American people if I wish so and like Melbourne more than Paris or London."

Sorry, you are butthurt, not me, because you didn't find your place in this competitive market, in this bad Europe. You can go to USA 100 times, bring your entire family or country. It doesn't change anything in my small life. Stop waving your arms like if entire Europe wanted to throw you in a well. You are the excited one, a little bit of introspection might be required.

"And yes, both Trump and Putin have more power than Frau Merkel. And she has the most power from all European leaders so the others are just personas non gratas."

You are free to go to North korea is you are looking for a charismatic leader with nuclear power in his hands...
Putin is weak, he would like to be USA, China, but he is Ukraine with 200 million inhabitants and warheads inherited from USSR.

"Think about it, Netherlands might be very rich but who really cares about Dutch culture and politics outside of themselves?"

Dutch don't care about having an influence against North Korea or Syria. They make their business and money while a lot of other countries are looking at their past without watching the wall coming in front of them.

" Europe is now seen as just a Disney land-like place for tourism to most people from all over the world."

That's better than being a hellhole. Attracting most of the tourism in the world that's also what we call soft power. Heard about it?
It's not because you failed in Europe that Europe is dead. It has enough to be one of the centroid of the world economy. Sorry, that's a fact.

"But architecture cannot substitute for terrible/rude customer service and unfriendly locals that [b]rarely engage in small talk with strangers".

Did you think that actually a lot of people might not want to be disturbed? But then again if you are the same than on this forum, it's a miracle that you are still alive. Spraying venom isn't very efficient to talk with people.

"A dozen or so Japanese tourists a year have to be repatriated from the French capital, after falling prey to what's become known as "Paris syndrome". That is what some polite Japanese tourists suffer when they discover that Parisians can be rude or the city does not meet their expectations." - happened to me all over Europe and I'm not even Asian. I guess I'm just too polite and friendly and expect the same."

I know this syndrome very well lol, it's well known. But then again, we are talking about Japanese... For some of them, they dream about europe to a level that could be qualified as 'sick'. Some of them really think Paris is an amusement park where people will kneel in front of them to satisfy their dreams. Ending in a city where people are busy and don't have the time, with pollution, noise, homeless people, thieves looking for a bag to steal, busy metro... Welcome in the real world. France isn't perfect, far from it and its capital is no exception. Before being a tourist spot, it's a city where people work, and not a wonderland where everyone is sweet. For that, come back to Japan or Korea.

"But back on topic - outside of Merkel, European leaders are NO ONE when it comes to their global position. Even she is of much lower significance than the POTUS and the Russian president. As Asian places are gaining traction like China, they might surpass the EU leadership in Global dominance"

European countries have the diplomatic weight of their demographic weight. Roughly. They are regional powers. Only USA and China are superpowers. UE has the economic weight of these too but no hard power. Yet Uk and France have enough warheads to level the ground in many places. Even a hard power like Russia will not engage a fight against these little moskitos.

After all this totally useless arguments, comes:
The ultimate question:
How the hell can you still be in Europe

? Be actor of your life instead of saying it's the fault of these nasty europeans. Just leave. It's not complicated.
Be a killer in Python or Java and you ll make 80k$ per year.

Ariete · 03-23-2018, 11:03 AM

Why are you arguing with this troll who has been banned multiple times earlier?

mihael · 03-23-2018, 11:24 AM

Pokito, I found a new job, again in Central Europe. Well no one here has done small talk with me at the chekout line like they do in many places in America. So I don’t get any community feel when strangers are too reserved to approach you for a healthy small talk.

I have the same issue with other European nations the Japanese tourists have of France. I expected lots of friendly small talk everywhere, yet it’s like everyone is in a bubble...

It’s not so easy to leave Europe, I’m not into IT. I’ve never even liked any European culture so it makes sense to go any place elsewhere, even South East Asia.

Ruth4Truth · 03-23-2018, 02:28 PM

OP, have you lived in the US? Are you from the US? Just wondering. Do you speak French? In my experience, the French aren't rude, if you speak halfway decent French. That would exclude Japanese tourists, generally. Small talk? You'd have to go outside the Germanic countries to find that. Try Italy, maybe Spain. IDK about France, small-talk-wise. That might be easier for women than for men to find, in France.

So, you're more or less fresh out of university, and starting at the clerical level? I can't imagine that clerical jobs are disappearing. In the US in some places, clerical work doesn't pay enough to live on. At least in Europe, up until now, you've been able to make a go of it. I'm sorry I can't come up with any helpful suggestions, at this point.

mihael · 03-23-2018, 04:18 PM

Italy and Spain are bankrupt economically. Also they are more agressive and impolite than the Anglo world.

Ruth4Truth · 03-23-2018, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mihael

Italy and Spain are bankrupt economically. Also they are more agressive and impolite than the Anglo world.

OK. Try the south of Germany; Bavaria, etc. The people are generally friendlier and a little more outgoing. Many people have commented to me that it's like night and day, compared to the center and the north.