4wd for Flagstaff (Phoenix: loan, live, legal)

[southernice78]

Do you need a 4wd or Awd to get through Flagstaff winters?

[rational1]

Depends on where you live, where you drive, and how urgent it is for you to get places when it snows.

[southernice78]

I'm not really into off roading in an automobile. I can do that with an ATV.

[kapie9969]

I have about gotten stuck in some parking lots with FWD. Had problems with going up the hills by the hospital. A Subaru with AWD would be really handy in Flagstaff and many of the roads up here.

[southernice78]

Originally Posted by kapie9969

I have about gotten stuck in some parking lots with FWD. Had problems with going up the hills by the hospital. A Subaru with AWD would be really handy in Flagstaff and many of the roads up here.

I have a Subaru Forester already that I had planned on keeping anyway. I have a rear wheel drive Tacoma that I would like to keep too but was wondering if it would have any practical use in the winter there. It will be a few years if and when I move but just thinking ahead.

[johninvegas]

You could use the Tacoma in the winter if you were to put studded snow tires (not sure if those are legal in AZ) or use chains. Back in the old days, before 4x4 became so available, we used to use chains all the time on rear wheel drive autos to get around in the winter.

[KurtAZ]

And sandbags in the bed. Helps to keep some weight on the rear wheels in trucks.

[kennykennybopenny]

Snow doesn't cover the roads in town all winter. It snows and disappears pretty quickly with most storms. A RWD or FWD vehicle would work on the majority of days in town.

[grad_student200]

Originally Posted by johninvegas

You could use the Tacoma in the winter if you were to put studded snow tires (not sure if those are legal in AZ) or use chains. Back in the old days, before 4x4 became so available, we used to use chains all the time on rear wheel drive autos to get around in the winter.

Long ago, I made it through a blizzard near Raton with just spiked ice tires on a 1990s Ford Ranger. It had a 4-cylinder engine with only two-wheel drive. The snow was really bad, and that part of rural NM did not have salt trucks that night.

Risk Management:
A 4-wd is not absolutely necessary but it lowers the risk. However, as noted, there are other ways of lowering the "risk" - tire chains (in extreme cases), extra weight in the back of the truck (sand bags, etc), driving only at "low risk" periods when the snow has been cleared out by public utility, etc.

In rural AZ decades ago, a lot of ranchers and workers did not have 4-wheel drive trucks, especially going into the earlier parts of the 1900s. They usually brought shovels, axes, added weight to the truck bed, used tire chains, and just generally developed the skills and experience to navigate harsh road conditions: mud slicks, puddles, river floods, snow, ice, etc. In those days, some of the old trucks had really weak thermodynamic stabilizers - the truck overheated a lot faster on rugged mountain dirt roads far from a service station. It wasn't uncommon for them to have to stop multiple times up a steep trail to let it cool down (circa mid 1900s). They became very skilled in driving the adverse conditions of rural AZ's mountain dirt roads.

These days, a lot of Arizonans drive a 4-wd in Phoenix and don't even use it that much. You could just get a 2 wd and save about 10-15 grand over the life of the loan (LOL). But the "catch" is make sure the 2wd drive has a tough cover under the frame. Some modern trucks (e.g. Ford F-150 XL) have a very weak composite cover that is like a box. I had one that tore off on an isolated dirt road. So I traded in the F-150 for a Chevrolet Colorado. The "composite" engineering has made lighter trucks that get better fuel economy, but in some cases the composites have really weakened the underside covers that tear off easily. Ask a mechanic, they can tell you the spike of those cases in recent models. I learned about that the hard way.

The days of an inexpensive Ford Ranger of the 1990s navigating a tough mountain road in AZ's snow storms are gone. Nowadays, you have to get the Ford F-150 Raptor (it seems) which is over $50,000.
But other brands can still give tough 2 wds in less expensive models. The Tacoma is wildly popular in AZ's offroad, but I am very pleased with the Chevy Colorado 2wd - it reminds me of the 1990s Ford Ranger's toughness except it's bigger and still gets good gas mileage. But just get tire chains, a shovel, sand bags, and a pick axe just in case.

[infocyde]

++ on what grad_student200 said (I'd rep that post but I guess I need to spread more rep around first).

Snow tires I don't think are popular out here, and it is a pain in the rear to swap tires out, but looking through youtube last night there were a lot of convincing videos out there that snow tires make a HUGE difference, maybe even more than having AWD/4WD. Won't turn your car into an off-roader but that extra grip cuts down stopping distance and helps going up hills in snow dramatically, at least according to the videos I watched.

I've got some cheap M+S rated tires, but I didn't notice much of a difference last Winter. I think you need to get dedicated quality snow tires for it to matter, but it will.