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Looking for a waterfront house in Key Largo.
First considered the area around Pilot House Marina which has good ocean access, altough it seems a little "busy" with the marina and the commercial fishermen there.
Also looked at the Winston Waterways area.
Both seem to have mixed neighborhoods around.
Don't want to break the bank, so I'm not considering Port Largo or other more expensive options.
Any comments about these areas ?
Welcome! Please post as many threads as you can about the Keys, we are trying to get a subforum.
Your perceptions are correct. It's hard to give you advice without more details. Do you need deep dockage? Are you intent on the Oceanside? Are you open to cheaper options like Card Sound area, some of the numbered streets on the Bayside, or areas of Tavernier like closer to Harry Harris, etc? Houses at ends of canals, like La Paloma, tend to be cheaper. What about houses that are dry lot but have a deeded dock across the street (several neighborhoods both Bayside and Oceanside, Key Largo and Tavernier have this)?
Some general tips: Be very cautious of plugged canals. Make sure you know if the water access you have actually leads out to the Ocean or Bay. Find out for sure how deep and narrow the shallowest and narrowest sections are at high tide - many areas in the Upper Keys have deeply dug canal ends, but lots of sediment and mangrove buildup at the mouth of the canal preventing healthy circulation of the water (gross - they're working on this, but it might be 100 years before all of them are fixed...), and also meaning that you can keep a large boat at your home, but can't actually fit it through the mouth of the canal to get it out (or in).
Find out the real info on your neighborhood's croc population. Some have none, some only have one or two, place like Lake Surprise have a LOT. They generally don't bother anybody, but it will affect things like whether you can ever leave a dog or small kid near the waterfront in the evening, and some difficulty maneuvering in the water at certain times, especially with PWDs. You may also want to have a gate around your property to keep them off.
Buy a stilt with no downstairs enclosure unless you are well into an above-flood (X) zone. Please hear me on this. It doesn't matter how old it is and what the real estate agent says. FEMA flood rates are already through the roof and continue to go up. Citizen's wind insurance is otherwise your highest cost, probably at 2-6k/yr depending on how new and sturdy the house is. Those rates are also continually going up (as are annual taxes, which are I think around 1.15% of county assessed property value). Downstairs enclosures below-flood are illegal unless the space is less than 300sqft, the walls are unfinished, and there are multiple vents and break-away walls. You can't have a kitchen, bathroom, or actual workspace down there - so houses with those things already set up, are subject to FEMA inspection when you close and could cause you to have to rip them out at your own expense or get your mortgage revoked, plus fines.
If you are buying in cash all these things will be easier, but you need to take the cost of self-insuring seriously. The Keys almost got hit with a hurricane this year, and got lucky it dissipated. It WILL happen eventually, there is a long history of direct and near hits in the Upper Keys, some at Cat 5 status. Buy a house that has a chance of making it through 10ft storm surge and 120mph winds, at least. Generally speaking, Bayside has less damage in a hurricane than Oceanside because of all the islands to provide some wind and wave protection, but if the storm comes from the opposite direction and hits the Bay hard, that is not necessarily true. Some long-term residents have said that Bayside storms were the worst, because it held the water in longer than Oceanside, and they got pummeled with flooding more than once in the same storm. People often say it's a toss-up which side to choose, but look at the particular neighborhood and consider how much the surge would have to hit before it reaches your house.
Get an independent inspector who knows the Keys well and is not just working for your Realtor. A lot of Realtors in the Keys have a team of inspector, mortgage broker, etc, that they insist on working with, and will dump you if you don't. They say it's so that it goes faster because the Keys are unique and outsiders mess things up. But many of them only do it so they can force a sale on a property that is unsafe, or otherwise not in the client's best interest. Get an inspector with a reputation for finding every last detail and working for YOU. Then you can decide if you want to keep it or not. Be aware that if you are from outside of FL, houses in FL are sold AS-IS, they don't negotiate and lower the price to cover items that need fixing as is done in many other states. Generally speaking, if the house has an issue, you have to walk away because the owner still expects the same price and won't fix the problem by sale contract before you move in. If you are from another state, this may come as a shock to you. You can try to renegotiate, but you will often lose to a cash buyer who doesn't even bother to read their own inspection report because they don't care, especially in the Keys where wealthy people are just buying vacation properties without regard to mold, flood insurance costs, etc. etc.
Make sure to inspect for mold, as well as termites, rats, and cockroach and scorpion infestations. Bees and wasps are also thriving in the Keys and may have a huge colony in your crawl space. If there are any gaps under or around your house post-inspection but no hives currently, get them sealed up immediately after sale.
Note that due to Homestead exemption, your property tax will be significantly higher than the previous owner's in proportion to the length of time they've owned the house. The longer the ownership, the greater the tax difference because values have generally increased a lot (not necessarily compared to 2007 though, when many 200k trailers were going for 800k!).
Obviously, make sure to have the property thoroughly researched before purchase, so there are no open permits, no liens on the house, etc. Double-check the survey that it is accurate, and you don't have trees or fences that are incorrectly marked on a previous survey and actually on neighbor's property. Double-check for unpermitted work done in the house or on the property, which is extremely common in Monroe County and can cost you over 100k in fines in a short span of time, according to a few stories I know of personally. Don't assume that nobody noticed before, so it's fine. They can fine you at any time, and will do so aggressively.
Consider if your neighborhood is a party rental place. Vacation rentals are illegal in most of the Keys, but a lot of people are desperate for money and do it anyway. It can mess up your peaceful abode, and wreck your property value. Often the more expensive neighborhoods with big houses have the loudest daily and weekly vacation rentals. All of Monroe County can rent for monthly rentals, but be aware that if you do so you might be risking your Homestead Exemption, as well as your mortgage. Mortgage companies routinely do check that you are actually living in the new house as a primary within a few weeks or a month or so of moving in, and sometimes multiple times afterward. This is especially true in the Keys, where many people rent out and commit residency mortgage fraud. If the mortgage company catches you, your whole mortgage can come due. So it's not a good idea to buy it as a primary house and immediately start renting it out without living there yourself as a roommate. Monroe County also has a hotline for people to report neighbors who violate the vacation rental restrictions.
If you do your homework now, you will have many happy years in the Keys afterwards. Few people who buy in the Keys do adequate research, and as a result, many get forced out of their homes due to foreclosures and other issues within 1-5 years. So these general tips are good to keep in mind, regardless of which house you choose.
Good luck finding the right fit! I spent 2 solid years looking, but I found mine. It is possible if you're patient, and informed.
This website is your friend: Property Search -- Monroe County Property Appraiser
Enter in ONLY the "physical location address" line, and do so only with the number and street name, not the rd, st, dr, ln, etc. or other address info - ex. 129 Harbor
StarfishKey, thanks for your response. I have read all your FL Keys comments, very useful.
I'm looking oceanside, and have already seen many options down to Tavernier. I've boated in that area and know the pros and cons of every canal. Access is adequate in the main canals around Port Largo, but it's questionable in others to the south or the Winston Waterways which get very shallow at low tide.
Wanted to have some input about how safe are those central Key Largo neighborhoods like Port Largo and the area around Pilot House. I won't be living there permanently, so safety is a concern. There's always the option of closed communities like Mariners or Kawama.
StarfishKey, thanks for your response. I have read all your FL Keys comments, very useful.
I'm looking oceanside, and have already seen many options down to Tavernier. I've boated in that area and know the pros and cons of every canal. Access is adequate in the main canals around Port Largo, but it's questionable in others to the south or the Winston Waterways which get very shallow at low tide.
Wanted to have some input about how safe are those central Key Largo neighborhoods like Port Largo and the area around Pilot House. I won't be living there permanently, so safety is a concern. There's always the option of closed communities like Mariners or Kawama.
Hey KEYS99, it sounds like you have good info about what you're interested in. No worries, the Upper Keys are extremely safe. Winston Waterways is a nice neighborhood, and Port Largo is one of the most upscale neighborhoods in Key Largo. You can call the Sheriff's Office and ask them directly about neighborhoods you are considering, roughly how many calls they get from the area and what type. Also, be sure to watch the online Monroe County police blotter, which has excellent (and fascinating) info on all the arrests every week, where people are from, and where and what crimes were committed.
Make sure also to ask people living in the neighborhood if they like it, Keys residents are usually extremely friendly and wouldn't mind answering questions.
Basically, the only crime you have to worry about anywhere in the Keys [North of Stock Island] is stuff related to alcoholism and mental illness - DUIs, domestic violence, occasional bar fights, very rarely a fight with a neighbor that might involve a weapon because the person is nuts. If you have kids or are a female alone you also need to consider that Monroe County has a higher percentage of registered sex offenders than the average community, and we also attract many who are homeless and do not register. Those with homes usually live in trailers because they cannot get good jobs due to the felony(ies). Many are theoretically reformed, and came down for a fresh start at life in a quiet community. (We don't have a ton of kids, so it's not a prime place to go if you were looking to re-offend, anyway.) Check online for maps of the registered ones to see if they are too close for comfort, given whatever their specific charge was. But I am a female and I do not feel unsafe around the Upper Keys generally speaking. It's a very friendly place, and although I do not advise this, many people do not lock their doors.
There are drugs, but no major hardcore drug wave - mostly a lot of pot smoking at home, and some kids who get into hardcore drugs in Miami because they're bored in the Keys and have problems at home because their parents are alcoholics so they're looking to self-medicate.
We have had an increase in petty boat theft, including stealing people's fish(!), so lock things up and don't just leave anything that is an easy target. Once in a while that happens to cars parked at bars at night too. So far, these incidents have by and large been traced to teenagers and people in their early 20s who come down from Miami, thinking the Keys are so peaceful they are an easy target.
House alarms and issues of personal attack by a stranger are very rare in the Keys. Poorer neighborhoods may look crummy, but are usually just extremely casual, and the people are super friendly. The wealthy neighborhoods have a tendency to illegally rent out to vacationers, and so may be more prone to loud partying, as well as to some residential speeding, and very rude people who are from other places and think their money makes them more important people. Wealthy people who live in the Keys are generally not like that at all, they think of themselves as equals to everyone else.
The worst danger in the Upper Keys is the highway, complicated now by the fact that this year FDOT planted a ton of vegetation in the middle of all the islands making it nearly impossible to see oncoming cars or businesses on the other side of the highway that you might be trying to visit. Drunks are a real thing, especially late at night, so watch for weaving or people driving too slow past 9PM.
Similarly, there is drunken boating, and reckless speeding nearshore.
People in the Upper Keys are very live and let live. I don't see crime with strangers, especially violent crime, as being a problem to worry about really virtually ever. I think you're more likely to cut yourself on coral and get an infection, than to have a dangerous situation with other people.
Just the same, I personally lock my house and car, and don't leave boating stuff laying around in the water in public spaces, so I don't invite trouble. The Keys are a major tourist destination, and there are people from all over coming down all the time, so you never know.
If you are going to be seasonal, make friends with your neighbors as soon as you move in, and get to know them. By the time you leave, you should be able to trust them to let them know you'll be away, and you can shutter up your house, and pay a maintenance company to check on it if you're concerned. I've also heard you can tell the police and they'll do occasional drive-bys to check on it, which is amazing if true. But I would not expect anything crime-related to occur. Just know who you are working with, don't hire people off the street or Craigslist to do work on your home. One lady had a random guy she hired to do some light yard work come back with his buddy and steal her hurricane windows right off her house while she was still in it! That's rare, but it's a good example of why you go with people who are licensed and well-known in the area, long term residents who have a reputation to uphold. As a Realtor here once told me, the Keys are small, you have to be neighbors with these people. If you as a business person do anyone wrong, you're going to be running into them at the grocery store the following week. Word spreads fast here, so stable businesses are careful to do all they can to keep people happy.
I would think you would love it here.
Word to the wise, I recently met a couple who had moved down and bought a gorgeous house in a more upscale neighborhood Bayside. In their zest for the island life, they cut down about 100 green coconuts from the yard, and the wife went to town all day with them. Apparently, she made herself so sick that they then wanted to give all the remainder away, because she never wanted to see another coconut as long as she lived. Coconut water is full of electrolytes - no more than 3 max a day, lol, or you are going to be sitting in the bathroom for quite a long time! Keys life can be dangerous.
Last edited by StarfishKey; 09-14-2015 at 02:39 PM..
I wonder how bad was the supermoon effect on the Upper Keys. Parts of Miami and Ft Lauderdale were under water these days, making a strong case to stay away from waterfront property.
This guy didn't seem very happy...
I wonder how bad was the supermoon effect on the Upper Keys. Parts of Miami and Ft Lauderdale were under water these days, making a strong case to stay away from waterfront property.
This guy didn't seem very happy...
Coincidence, I just posted a thread about this! Oddly enough, the problem was not caused by the Blood Supermoon, or other full moon activity of late (which sadly I couldn't even see for all the rain clouds).
Details as to what caused the flooding are in the other thread, called I think "Flooding in the Upper Keys"... My neighborhood is totally dry though, which is why I keep warning people to do their research. We all get hit by the hordes of mosquitoes, but not everyone gets the same flood damage - a few feet of elevation make a huge difference. People who have that much flooding in their yards without even a storm, are going to be in major trouble when a real tropical storm, or an actual hurricane (not even a major one), hits us directly!
Plan ahead, people, you need both your yard, and your street, to be at as high an elevation as possible, otherwise you might lose your car at the least, or all your belongings too if the housing is below-flood. Plus of course, if the water rushes either in, or out, it could be extremely dangerous. Stay high and dry!
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