[Travelassie]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

My house is worth like 470k and went up next year. Cost more than yours. Then again I'm in Punta Gorda and we got hit much much harder in Charlotte County than you did in Sarasota. They have me in a FEMA Flood zone even though it has hardly ever flooded according to history. Didn't during Donna 1960.

They could go by strictly elevation, not historical flooding. My house is 9 feet in elevation and I'm still a couple miles from the Harbor. Even if the surge made it to me it would be minimal by then. I'm literally like 2000 feet on the west side of I75. If I was just a half mile east I wouldn't even be considered a flood zone

Look at Ian for example even if it had hit Englewood the center and brought the max surge up Charlotte Harbor instead I still don't see myself getting surge in my house. Maybe a couple inches on my street. But not in my house.

I'm not trying to downplay Ian but the surge was nowhere near as bad as they made it out to be as it was approaching. When they were saying up to 18 feet! Ft. Myers Beach had 15 feet, Sanibel up to 13 feet. Cape Coral didn't get 12 feet of surge as was hype. And up the river downtown had flooding but it wasn't as catastrophic as it was hyped. Our coastline isn't like the MS coast and Katrina and Camille. They can get surge much worse there than SWFL.

Same with Irma. Everglades City didn't get no 15 foot surge despite being on the right side of the storm which is worst for surge. Even the Keys didn't get monster surge.

Our house ( built in 2008) is currently appraised at around $550k, and is located on an acre property on a canal just off the Peace River. We submitted a mitigation and elevation certificate to the insurance company and FEMA when the house was finished ,and a mitigation report again after our roof was replaced after Ian last fall. Our premium renewal for this year was about $4300, and our flood insurance premium ( FEMA administered through Progressive) was $900 for the upcoming year. We have never had a flood damage claim. The water in the canal actually got sucked out during Ian, but there was flooding of the Peace River that we were afraid might get into our house about 2-3 days after this storm, when the already flooded Peace River in Arcadia and points northeast were even more flooded by Ian's rains, and that water made its way down the Peace River to its natural outlet in Charlotte Harbor and the Gulf. But the house is built high on the property, and the water never got closee than 15 feet from the house, though the lower edges of our property were flooded for a couple days.

Those insurance rates are admittedly a chunk of change, though expenses such as that were some of the reasons we decided we'd do our best to be as debt free as possible in our retirement.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by Travelassie

Our house ( built in 2008) is currently appraised at around $550k, and is located on an acre property on a canal just off the Peace River. We submitted a mitigation and elevation certificate to the insurance company and FEMA when the house was finished ,and a mitigation report again after our roof was replaced after Ian last fall. Our premium renewal for this year was about $4300, and our flood insurance premium ( FEMA administered through Progressive) was $900 for the upcoming year. We have never had a flood damage claim. The water in the canal actually got sucked out during Ian, but there was flooding of the Peace River that we were afraid might get into our house about 2-3 days after this storm, when the already flooded Peace River in Arcadia and points northeast were even more flooded by Ian's rains, and that water made its way down the Peace River to its natural outlet in Charlotte Harbor and the Gulf. But the house is built high on the property, and the water never got closee than 15 feet from the house, though the lower edges of our property were flooded for a couple days.

Those insurance rates are admittedly a chunk of change, though expenses such as that were some of the reasons we decided we'd do our best to be as debt free as possible in our retirement.

That's not too bad for being on a canal though. Does having an acre of land factor into it and liability reasons like if someone gets injured or falls into the canal off the seawall?

My cousin has a house on a salt water canal in Hernando county and I think her flood and property insurance combines is like 8 thousand per year!! And it's built on stilts with the garage on the bottom level and living space on the second floor per building codes.

Idalia brought about a foot of water into her first floor, the garage but I don't think the damage was enough to meet the deductible. Just some painting needs to be done and I think will have to replace the patio glass doors.

Seems really high for a house on stilts. I know Hernando county floods super easy and Idalia didn't even direct hit there but still. We have a much better chance of getting a major direct hit down here than they do. House is probably worth currently about 300k. Insane.

[Travelassie]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

That's not too bad for being on a canal though. Does having an acre of land factor into it and liability reasons like if someone gets injured or falls into the canal off the seawall?

My cousin has a house on a salt water canal in Hernando county and I think her flood and property insurance combines is like 8 thousand per year!! And it's built on stilts with the garage on the bottom level and living space on the second floor per building codes.

Idalia brought about a foot of water into her first floor, the garage but I don't think the damage was enough to meet the deductible. Just some painting needs to be done and I think will have to replace the patio glass doors.

Seems really high for a house on stilts. I know Hernando county floods super easy and Idalia didn't even direct hit there but still. We have a much better chance of getting a major direct hit down here than they do. House is probably worth currently about 300k. Insane.

Those are some high insurance premiums your cousin pays, for sure. I'd think her flood insurance would be pretty high if she's in an area where houses are required per building code to be on stilts, with the living area on the second floor? As we all know, though, lots of things factor into determining insurance premiums, ie, age of the house, structure type ( frame, CBS), roof shape, type, age of roof, closeness to a fire station or hydrant, and a whole list of other items that if present can mitigate the costs some. When I looked at our homeowner's policy at the list of itemized charges for coverage, the total cost would have been around $25,000, but they had applied discounts for all the mitigation items ( hurricane impact windows, doors, garage door, new roof, shape of roof, smoke detectors, down to claim-free and senior discounts) that brought that amount down to $4300 or so. The policy does include liability insurance.

Our flood insurance premium is based, they tell us, on the elevation certificate for the house, which states it's at 12.2. feet. We've had flood insurance for about 7-8 years on the house, this may be the reason the premiums aren't higher. I've heard of much higher premium quotes from people who are just now getting flood insurance, and never had it before, especially if they're in a flood plain. The funny thing is that the only part of our property that's in a designated flood plain is the section immediately adjacent to the canal, the rest of the property is outside the flood plain ( zone x) Even though the house is built on the part of the property outside the flood plain, we're still considered as being in the flood plain.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by sinatras

The asking price has nothing to do with the premium. Insurance premiums are based on actuarial science in which the companies try to set a premium on which they don't lose money.

The home is 4 bedrooms at 3500 sq feet and not even on the water.

Are you saying that the Molinaris do not live in the real world? That Flamingo Park is not the real world? That these people are lying to the Wall Street Journal and that their premium did not double 13 times since 2019?

They're about 1/2 mile from the ocean and it's an older home with zero ground clearance from surge.

They got a quote for the really high number, but in reality got a quote for 33k which is about 3x higher than they paid in 2009. Citing the really huge number is just click bait candy by the writer of the article.

While rates over the long term are actuarially determined, the catastrophe insurance markets where many smaller insurers gain reinsurance is in the short term more dictated by supply and demand for capital.

Following recent storms, the capital supply is limited and demand is level so prices are going up.

[sinatras]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

They're about 1/2 mile from the ocean and it's an older home with zero ground clearance from surge.

That would describe a great deal of real estate in Florida!

And let's not try to normalize $33,000 as being a perfectly normal or acceptable homeowners insurance premium. We are talking about a home that is not gargantuan, not on the water, and not in any way shape or form remarkable in terms of risk. Whether it's a 33k premium or a 121k premium, the vast majority of Floridians cannot afford to pay anything close to that.

[Travelassie]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

They're about 1/2 mile from the ocean and it's an older home with zero ground clearance from surge.

They got a quote for the really high number, but in reality got a quote for 33k which is about 3x higher than they paid in 2009. Citing the really huge number is just click bait candy by the writer of the article.

While rates over the long term are actuarially determined, the catastrophe insurance markets where many smaller insurers gain reinsurance is in the short term more dictated by supply and demand for capital.

Following recent storms, the capital supply is limited and demand is level so prices are going up.

Why am I not surprised?

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by sinatras

That would describe a great deal of real estate in Florida!

And let's not try to normalize $33,000 as being a perfectly normal or acceptable homeowners insurance premium. We are talking about a home that is not gargantuan, not on the water, and not in any way shape or form remarkable in terms of risk. Whether it's a 33k premium or a 121k premium, the vast majority of Floridians cannot afford to pay anything close to that.

Storm surge doesn't care if you are right on the water or not. Katrina's surge went 6-12 miles inland just as an example.

https://hurricanescience.org/history...20to%2019%20ft.

Most hurricane models have the highest risk areas for SE Florida including West Palm, they sure aren't Tampa or Jacksonville in that regard. *shrug*

I don't know what to tell you about the cost, homeowners insurance has been a problem in the state for a very long time.

[sinatras]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

Storm surge doesn't care if you are right on the water or not. Katrina's surge went 6-12 miles inland just as an example.

https://hurricanescience.org/history...20to%2019%20ft.

Most hurricane models have the highest risk areas for SE Florida including West Palm, they sure aren't Tampa or Jacksonville in that regard. *shrug*

I don't know what to tell you about the cost, homeowners insurance has been a problem in the state for a very long time.

The majority of the state of Florida is under the risk of storm surge!

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/nationalsurge/

As for insurance being a problem in the state, you got that right.

[Travelassie]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

Storm surge doesn't care if you are right on the water or not. Katrina's surge went 6-12 miles inland just as an example.

https://hurricanescience.org/history...20to%2019%20ft.

Most hurricane models have the highest risk areas for SE Florida including West Palm, they sure aren't Tampa or Jacksonville in that regard. *shrug*

I don't know what to tell you about the cost, homeowners insurance has been a problem in the state for a very long time.

I know we all talk about the cost of homeowner's insurance related to the risk of storm surges or flooding to the insured property, and assume, it seems, the premium rates would be directly proportional to those risks. But homeowner's insurance does not cover flood or storm surge damages- homeowner's policies state that in BIG BOLD letters on the front page of the policy to ensure the homeowner is aware of that fact and will obtain a separate flood insurance policy if he's at risk for flooding. So really, the homeowner's insurance premiums should not be affected by a dwelling's proximity to either the ocean, or any body of water.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by sinatras

The majority of the state of Florida is under the risk of storm surge!

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/nationalsurge/

As for insurance being a problem in the state, you got that right.

Yes, storm surge can go far in land and can happen anywhere. (severity)

The issue is that some parts of the state have a far higher probability of getting a storm with significant surge than others. (frequency)

So Losses = frequency x severity

Check out this map, the purple\pinkish lines are the CAT4-5's....they LOVE to hit from West Palm down to the Keys unfortunately. The Northern half of the state can get hit, but it's vastly more rare.

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/news/h...al-hurricanes/