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As I indicated on the "cardboard veggies" thread, I am in the process of learning how to buy QUALITY food at reasonable/fair prices, as well as WHERE.
Due to a certain lack of awareness / chance to ponder over how agriculture works in this country, and especially time, I have made the mistake of ending up with quite unimpressive ingredients in the past that consistently ruin my cooking.
I have erroneously taken for granted the idea that basic, natural staples available close by (which for most people means grocery store) are just fine to obtain a delicious, tasty meal, as long as they are cooked from scratch, with the right cooking techniques.
As I am learning that I DO need to make special efforts in acquiring ingredients that are NOT easily found within 5-10 minutes drive, and that I need to allocate extra time, planning, money for better brands, and knowledge of niche shops, etc... I also need to better understand what I should expect in terms of prices.
I wonder if anyone knows of a site that offers information on good/fair pricing for meats and vegetables of high quality. In other words, not the cheapest item you can get away with in this country - as this is clearly not leading anywhere good.
For veggies, I mean in-season, ideally locally-grown by small farmers, who do not grow for huge distances and long shelf life. Not necessarily certified organic, but of clearly good quality (which in my world boils down to high flavor and high natural juiciness, not looks). I would just need a rough price list.
For example, at times, you can get away with 99 c/lb - 1.98 c/lb Roma tomatoes from grocery stores. As far as I am concerned, these have ALWAYS been bad.
Instead, what should I expect to pay for 1 lb of good quality tomatoes at a farmer's market - as a fair price.
Just trying to understand meats seems downright scary.
For now I would only want to know how much I should expect to pay for basic but high quality whole chicken, ground beef, pork chops/butt, salmon, shrimp, etc.
By high quality in this department, I mean tender, flavorful, and ...to make it simple and avoid all the jargon of the "health food world"... raised as much as possible without junk that is alleged to eventually cause scary disease (hormone, antibiotics, too much fat, etc).
Basically - good food at fair prices - and not the cheapest an American could get away with.
I had found some "penny pincher" site that offered rough prices for meat and veggies but when I saw she considers 1.99-2.99/lb to be a good price for 1 lb of ground meat, I started to doubt it.
This sounds like the lowest price one could get away with for 1 lb of ground meat - but it doesn't seem to take into account quality or the fact that this "deal" could end up making a mess of your dish.
So how much should I expect to pay for 1 lb of good quality, local/regional grass-fed beef without feeling like I have been duped?
If anyone knows of a site with a good pricing list, I would appreciate it!
It would be so regional and get out dated so quickly, you won't find one online.
But I have a general rule of thumb: If you want local, super fresh, better than grocery store quality or anything else 'special', prepare to spend 1.5 - 2X what it costs in the grocery store. Sometimes more (especially meat).
I'm rarely willing to do that. Fish and shrimp, sometimes. But that's about it for me. And I live in Raleigh, NC, home of the largest farmer's market on the east coast. With few exceptions, my estimates have been accurate on produce, and under priced on meat. Exceptions have included, at various times, sweet potatoes, corn on the cob and peaches.
Location: St Thomas, USVI - Seattle, WA - Gulf Coast, TX
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This is far too fluid (changes with supply, demand, season, economical climate, hell it probably changes when someone sneezes in Greece), too regional (how far did the product travel, is it in season in the region where you're located?, is it in higher demand/supply where you are located?...), and FAR too subjective when you start talking about "quality" to have any exact expectation when it comes to pricing these things out. No, there is not going to be an online guide or the like.
Are you afraid someone is going to rip you off or something? Just find a good butcher (and a fish monger!) that knows his/her stuff, and stocks product that you're pleased with in terms of sourcing and quality, and pay what they ask, if you can afford it. Prices at a good meat market can change even daily, sometimes. When it comes to meat and seafood, finding yourself a good butcher and a good fishmonger is a great idea. You can trust them to tell you what's good that day and what's a good deal, and you won't be left with any "scary" decisions.
Last edited by IslandCityGirl; 07-21-2015 at 12:29 PM..
It would be so regional and get out dated so quickly, you won't find one online.
But I have a general rule of thumb: If you want local, super fresh, better than grocery store quality or anything else 'special', prepare to spend 1.5 - 2X what it costs in the grocery store. Sometimes more (especially meat).
I'm rarely willing to do that. Fish and shrimp, sometimes. But that's about it for me. And I live in Raleigh, NC, home of the largest farmer's market on the east coast. With few exceptions, my estimates have been accurate on produce, and under priced on meat. Exceptions have included, at various times, sweet potatoes, corn on the cob and peaches.
Thank you, JK. You are right that it is not easy to find any such pricing list on the Net.
For example, I have been trying to buy grass-fed ground beef over the past year or so...well..mainly due to all the threats of what is going to happen to us if we do otherwise: we will get hormone-driven illnesses, kids will go through puberty early, men's sperm count will drop, and we will all become hunchbacks. Or something of that nature.
Joking aside, I decided to go grass-fed. My grocery store sells it for about 7$/lb.
I DO feel like a fool at times, thinking how much nicer it would be to just pay 1.99-2.99/lb for basic ground meat from some large retailer and call it a day, especially because I have noticed that when it comes to beef, the cheaper/grain-fed/hormonish one also seems to taste better and be more tender .
With chicken, it's a different story. The more expensive ones (such as the air-chilled, smaller, tender ones that WF sells) clearly perform better. So it's not just the health here, it's also the taste/results in the plate. Again...those are pretty expensive and if I do get one once in a while, I get it whole and cut it up myself. Otherwise, I have been getting the organic family pack from TJ but have not been impressed with the tenderness and taste. I just get it because it's "organic" and seems like a decent deal for organic.
The huge Perdue-type chickens with 1 hundred pounds of fat on them are out of the question.
It seems to be very difficult, indeed, to balance quality and cost.
Going back to veggies, I never imagined I was committing such a culinary sin by buying basic Hunt's canned tomatoes instead of the San Marzano types; but apparently I was because I hate how that tomato juice acts in just about everything I use it in.
I was simply trying not to break the bank and feel like an idiot by grabbing the most expensive can the grocery store threw my way ...but hey, what did I know.
Live and learn. And pay.
As I indicated on the "cardboard veggies" thread, I am in the process of learning how to buy QUALITY food at reasonable/fair prices, as well as WHERE.
Due to a certain lack of awareness / chance to ponder over how agriculture works in this country, and especially time, I have made the mistake of ending up with quite unimpressive ingredients in the past that consistently ruin my cooking.
I find it hard to believe that supermarket quality items could be responsible for consistently ruining anyone's cooking.
That said, if you want high quality, low cost fresh ingredients consider joining a CSA. You pay up front and then enjoy deliveries throughout the growing season. No prices to compare there. They will only deliver what they just picked so you'll have to do your meal planning around it. Compared to organic shopping centers it's certainly much cheaper and there are options to include meat.
Beyond that maybe farmers market or farm stand veggies. You typically won't find a farmers market price list because it changes from week to week based on supply and quality. Good luck.
As I indicated on the "cardboard veggies" thread, I am in the process of learning how to buy QUALITY food at reasonable/fair prices, as well as WHERE.
Due to a certain lack of awareness / chance to ponder over how agriculture works in this country, and especially time, I have made the mistake of ending up with quite unimpressive ingredients in the past that consistently ruin my cooking.
I have erroneously taken for granted the idea that basic, natural staples available close by (which for most people means grocery store) are just fine to obtain a delicious, tasty meal, as long as they are cooked from scratch, with the right cooking techniques.
As I am learning that I DO need to make special efforts in acquiring ingredients that are NOT easily found within 5-10 minutes drive, and that I need to allocate extra time, planning, money for better brands, and knowledge of niche shops, etc... I also need to better understand what I should expect in terms of prices.
I wonder if anyone knows of a site that offers information on good/fair pricing for meats and vegetables of high quality. In other words, not the cheapest item you can get away with in this country - as this is clearly not leading anywhere good.
For veggies, I mean in-season, ideally locally-grown by small farmers, who do not grow for huge distances and long shelf life. Not necessarily certified organic, but of clearly good quality (which in my world boils down to high flavor and high natural juiciness, not looks). I would just need a rough price list.
For example, at times, you can get away with 99 c/lb - 1.98 c/lb Roma tomatoes from grocery stores. As far as I am concerned, these have ALWAYS been bad.
Instead, what should I expect to pay for 1 lb of good quality tomatoes at a farmer's market - as a fair price.
Just trying to understand meats seems downright scary.
For now I would only want to know how much I should expect to pay for basic but high quality whole chicken, ground beef, pork chops/butt, salmon, shrimp, etc.
By high quality in this department, I mean tender, flavorful, and ...to make it simple and avoid all the jargon of the "health food world"... raised as much as possible without junk that is alleged to eventually cause scary disease (hormone, antibiotics, too much fat, etc).
Basically - good food at fair prices - and not the cheapest an American could get away with.
I had found some "penny pincher" site that offered rough prices for meat and veggies but when I saw she considers 1.99-2.99/lb to be a good price for 1 lb of ground meat, I started to doubt it.
This sounds like the lowest price one could get away with for 1 lb of ground meat - but it doesn't seem to take into account quality or the fact that this "deal" could end up making a mess of your dish.
So how much should I expect to pay for 1 lb of good quality, local/regional grass-fed beef without feeling like I have been duped?
If anyone knows of a site with a good pricing list, I would appreciate it!
I think the question of fresh veggies which you are mentioning here again has been answered for you over and over again. As for quality meats at a reasonable price, that is a contradiction. You don't buy quality meats at a reasonable price unless you have a large freezer and can buy a side of beef or pork and get it cut to order. Normally your local butcher shop and there are plenty in your region will have top quality but you will have to be willing to pay the price.
I have heard Costco meat is very good and we enjoy Sam's believe it or not, but again, I don't think one would find it cheap. Today, there is no such thing as cheap beef or seafood. Pork and chicken are your best bets. Just today, I had to pick up a couple of items to make my home made egg rolls and decided to check the price of cube steak. I was in the mood for chicken fried steak. Well, I am talking WalMart and I do not buy meat from Walmart. The price, $6.99 lb. We are not having chicken fried steak for dinner.
Thank you, JK. You are right that it is not easy to find any such pricing list on the Net.
For example, I have been trying to buy grass-fed ground beef over the past year or so...well..mainly due to all the threats of what is going to happen to us if we do otherwise: we will get hormone-driven illnesses, kids will go through puberty early, men's sperm count will drop, and we will all become hunchbacks. Or something of that nature.
Joking aside, I decided to go grass-fed. My grocery store sells it for about 7$/lb.
I DO feel like a fool at times, thinking how much nicer it would be to just pay 1.99-2.99/lb for basic ground meat from some large retailer and call it a day, especially because I have noticed that when it comes to beef, the cheaper/grain-fed/hormonish one also seems to taste better and be more tender .
With chicken, it's a different story. The more expensive ones (such as the air-chilled, smaller, tender ones that WF sells) clearly perform better. So it's not just the health here, it's also the taste/results in the plate. Again...those are pretty expensive and if I do get one once in a while, I get it whole and cut it up myself. Otherwise, I have been getting the organic family pack from TJ but have not been impressed with the tenderness and taste. I just get it because it's "organic" and seems like a decent deal for organic.
The huge Perdue-type chickens with 1 hundred pounds of fat on them are out of the question.
It seems to be very difficult, indeed, to balance quality and cost.
Going back to veggies, I never imagined I was committing such a culinary sin by buying basic Hunt's canned tomatoes instead of the San Marzano types; but apparently I was because I hate how that tomato juice acts in just about everything I use it in.
I was simply trying not to break the bank and feel like an idiot by grabbing the most expensive can the grocery store threw my way ...but hey, what did I know.
Live and learn. And pay.
Where in the heck are you getting any groundbeef for $1.99 lb? BTW, some fat on the chicken makes it more flavorful and not nearly as dry. Again, as has been explained over and over, you do not get good quality meats at a reasonable price. Not to mention what do you consider reasonable? $5.00 lb for ground beef, or $3.50 a lb. Chicken at .99 lb or 2.00 a lb?
I think the question of fresh veggies which you are mentioning here again has been answered for you over and over again.
I got THAT part.
I was simply wondering if there are any sites with prices relative to quality so I know what I should expect to pay for a variety of items and whether quality items could be found in any niche places at better prices than big retailers.
The answer was that such price lists would be hard to find given regional variations and fluctuations in price.
Got that too.
On a side note, I bought some tomatoes from a guy who has a small stand somewhere close by. He says he gets them from farmers in the area, so they seem to be local. Yes, they were tangibly better than what I get at the chain grocery store. The flavor didn't blow me away but there was more of it compared to those at the grocery store.
The big plus was that they were juicy - something the ones at the grocery stores are not.
I paid 2.49 for 1 lb of such tomatoes. Would people consider this a good price? Fair? Overpay - for the SE region?
I look forward to trying some heirloom tomatoes from the closest FM next Saturday. Planned special trip already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita
As for quality meats at a reasonable price, that is a contradiction. You don't buy quality meats at a reasonable price unless you have a large freezer and can buy a side of beef or pork and get it cut to order. Normally your local butcher shop and there are plenty in your region will have top quality but you will have to be willing to pay the price.
I understand.
I just like the meat to taste nice and be tender.
I am never impressed with the chicken I buy at grocery stores (except the air-chilled from Whole Foods which I can't afford on a regular basis); but I cook with what I have, usually from TJ'.
Beef - I only use rarely, usually 1 lb of ground or some stew meat - which I used to get from Costco
Pork - use somewhat more often, but again, don't like what I can typically find, including at Costco.
It is bland, hard or with too much fat.
Fish - I like the Salmon from Costco, but can't make a regular habit out of that.
I have never tried getting meats from niche, local butchers - but I will try a few times just to see the difference, if there is a significant one.
Where in the heck are you getting any groundbeef for $1.99 lb?
I am not. I saw this price on some "Penny Pincher" site that had a list of "good prices" you should be able to hunt for - if you watch deals, sales, do your homework, stand on your hands, etc.
I can only assume that the 1.99-2.99/lb ground beef she was talking about would suck - sale or not sale.
But who knows? Maybe I haven't been shopping savvy enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita
BTW, some fat on the chicken makes it more flavorful and not nearly as dry.
I know. I just don't like those huge ones with lots of fat on them. In my experience, they taste awful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita
Again, as has been explained over and over, you do not get good quality meats at a reasonable price.
It has only been explained once - and I got it pretty quickly.
The discussion on the other thread concerned veggies. Also, prices were not discussed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita
Not to mention what do you consider reasonable? $5.00 lb for ground beef, or $3.50 a lb. Chicken at .99 lb or 2.00 a lb?
I am not sure about "reasonable" (which would depend on accepting a variety of premises, some of which I don't accept)...but I can tell you what I would consider a GOOD price.
I have two definitions of "good price": a philosophical one (apparently not realistic in many parts of the world) and a pragmatic one.
I'll start with the pragmatic. A "good price" for me would be a price that said food item can be found at with a little leg work/going to the right niche place, and usually less than what a big retailer might sell it for. As in a "good deal".
For example, if Kroger asks 7$ for 1 lb for grass-fed ground meet, is it possible to find same or even better quality ground meet at a niche store for 5-6 dollars? Maybe even less? Maybe directly from the farmer, by buying an entire part of the animal?
That would be reasonable to me because I know big retailers overcharge, in general - due to all the middle-men.
The philosophical definition of good price would be a price that would allow most people to have easy access (both geographical and financial) to high quality, tasty basic produce and meats. We have been told the latter is not realistic (remain skeptical), so I am not using this definition.
So ...is it possible to find good grass-fed ground beef at 5 dollars/lb?
Good-tasting, tender chicken at 1.99 a lb?
Etc.
Just wanted to know how much exactly people expect to pay for quality, for specific items.
Food shopping is a gamble; you might just have to try different stores until you find what you like best, possibly even several stores. Ironically, the very best place I get produce is an ethnic grocery store with dirt-cheap prices on produce. Personally, I've found the farm stands to be a hit or miss, in terms of quality and selection. The CSAs are unimpressive: I'm not going to fork over $350/season and get a bumper crop of eggplant and swiss chard in return.
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