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Hoping someone can shed some light on this question for me.
First a quick summary of how I got the initial info. I was able to receive a copy of a handwritten paper, not sure which family member originally wrote it, that has some important dates info on it for my Great Grandfather, and my Great Great Grandfather. It seems it's been shared with extended family members over the years. (copy attached to this post)
I was able to contact the Prothonotary for where I knew my Great Great Grandfather Jonas was Naturalized, and I have gotten a copy of his intent and naturalization. Other than these 2 documents, I'm not able to find anything else on him, and find no evidence left the US. What I did find interesting is the intent was 3 days prior to his naturalization. From what I read on the process back then, it doesn't seem possible to have both of those back to back like that.
So now, my question lies with my Great Grandfather, Moses. They were able to find a copy of his intent, but not of his naturalization, shown to had been in Elk County, PA. Whoever wrote this note had a date of naturalization as May 27, 1889. So, if his intent was done in one county is it possible that he was Naturalized in another county in PA and that's why they don't have record of it where his intent was done. It's like pulling teeth to get an answer from the few counties I did try to reach that I knew he lived in. I just want to know who has a copy of his Naturalization so I can order copies.
The paper attached shows the intent day, which matched the actual date of the intent. Whoever wrote these notes must have some kind of paperwork to have been able to know this.
I don't live in PA so I can't do a search at any office, and most offices you call say they can't help, that they are understaffed. How is one suppose to be able to find this info out? Thankfully, Ridgway County was helpful and I was able to get the information they had, but I'd really like to find the Naturalization record for Moses. Through the intent I found he was native of Sweden but it says he was born in Germany - which has been mind blowing since we were always told he was Swedish. I am trying to figure out if this is now correct.
Does anyone know if I could find this information if I went to one of the Family Search offices?
Naturalization files are located at the NARA . Sometimes letters and photos are even part of the file. Since you have dates (if they are correct), you may be able to get copies of the files directly from NARA.
So now, my question lies with my Great Grandfather, Moses. They were able to find a copy of his intent, but not of his naturalization, shown to had been in Elk County, PA. Whoever wrote this note had a date of naturalization as May 27, 1889. So, if his intent was done in one county is it possible that he was Naturalized in another county in PA and that's why they don't have record of it where his intent was done.
Yes, if he moved in between intent and naturalization then the processing could have been done in another county.
Quote:
Does anyone know if I could find this information if I went to one of the Family Search offices?
They probably wouldn't be able to help you without the proper microfilm. Online, they have naturalizations for the Eastern District, but otherwise you'll have to either order from NARA as suggested by someone else, or order the microfilm for the correct county/district and browse through the microfilm at a Family History Center: https://familysearch.org/catalog/search
For example, here's the microfilm for Elk County naturalizations: https://familysearch.org/search/cata...tory%20Library - but it sounds like you're looking for another county? Do you know what county he moved to? You might also want to try the Western District courts:
That NARA website given above has the information you need. (hopefully.) You might get lucky and just be able to make a phone call to the state archives, also given on that page.
There can be a wealth of information on the naturalization papers, including where the person last lived in the previous country and who sponsored them to become a US citizen (often a relative), and the address where they were living at the time of petition.
Enumerated under "Shapsin" looks like Shapiro
1910 Rochester Monroe Co, New York census
Moses age 49 born Russia, parents born Russia, able to read&write, married 23 years, immigration 1889, papers, grocery store owner
Ella age 45 born Russia, parents born Russia, able read&write, married 23 years, immigration1889(index said 1898 but incorrect) saleswoman grocery store
Nephews living with them-
Samuel Bennis 19 born Russia, parents born Russia
Issador Bennis 12 born Wisconsin, parents born Russia
....
Found Samuel L Bennis 39 born Russia in census 1930 Newark NJ grocery storekeeper, Jewish, (wife Kittie Polish parents),
........
Isador Stanley Benis World War I draft in Omaha, Nebraska, citizenship by father's naturalization
Last edited by historyfan; 02-02-2016 at 02:34 PM..
Reason: spelling
I've attached a copy of the intent for Moses, the one I'm looking for more information about. What I just noticed as I was scanning this document is on one side it says SHIPARO and on the other side it says SHAPIRO And on that paper is also lists SAPIRA!
Naturalization files are located at the NARA . Sometimes letters and photos are even part of the file. Since you have dates (if they are correct), you may be able to get copies of the files directly from NARA.
It's interesting, with my Great Great Grandfather Jonas, I looked up the person who vouched for him and it seems to have been a bartender. I have Jonas' intent and declaration, no problem there, just a question - how he was able to get the intent and the naturalization in 3 days!
I sent an email to the Naturalization office in PA. I may try to call if I don't hear anything in a few days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK
Yes, if he moved in between intent and naturalization then the processing could have been done in another county.
They probably wouldn't be able to help you without the proper microfilm. Online, they have naturalizations for the Eastern District, but otherwise you'll have to either order from NARA as suggested by someone else, or order the microfilm for the correct county/district and browse through the microfilm at a Family History Center: https://familysearch.org/catalog/search
For example, here's the microfilm for Elk County naturalizations: https://familysearch.org/search/cata...tory%20Library - but it sounds like you're looking for another county? Do you know what county he moved to? You might also want to try the Western District courts:
I will probably go to one of the history library's one day. They have funky hours so have to plan ahead.
All the dates on the paper on the file attached to this thread so far, have been correct, as far as intent and naturalization. I'd be surprised if the one I'm looking for for Moses/Morris wouldn't be, just have to find where it is located now. I can cross off Elk/Ridgway County and I heard back from Bradford County, no info there. I know he got married in Warren, and he lived in McKean as well. Tried reaching both of those offices, Warren said they couldn't help due to being understaffed. Mckean was no answer. Bradford, someone from the historical society said they had nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins
Some people only did the intent stage and in some states that was enough for them to vote so they didn't bother with the rest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland
That NARA website given above has the information you need. (hopefully.) You might get lucky and just be able to make a phone call to the state archives, also given on that page.
There can be a wealth of information on the naturalization papers, including where the person last lived in the previous country and who sponsored them to become a US citizen (often a relative), and the address where they were living at the time of petition.
Good luck with your quest.
Thanks so much for your input, and links!
Quote:
Originally Posted by historyfan
Question
Could this be your Moses?
Enumerated under "Shapsin" looks like Shapiro
1910 Rochester Monroe Co, New York census
Moses age 49 born Russia, parents born Russia, able to read&write, married 23 years, immigration 1889, papers, grocery store owner
Ella age 45 born Russia, parents born Russia, able read&write, married 23 years, immigration1889(index said 1898 but incorrect) saleswoman grocery store
Nephews living with them-
Samuel Bennis 19 born Russia, parents born Russia
Issador Bennis 12 born Wisconsin, parents born Russia
....
Found Samuel L Bennis 39 born Russia in census 1930 Newark NJ grocery storekeeper, Jewish, (wife Kittie Polish parents),
........
Isador Stanley Benis World War I draft in Omaha, Nebraska, citizenship by father's naturalization
Thanks, but no - though they did live in Rochester, it's not one of the same. My Great Grandfather Moses/Morris was born approx. 1859, supposedly in Germany, but was a native of Sweden and said he migrated from Gothenburg, Sweden and arrived at NY around the 15th of September 1881. His intent was done in Elk County, PA on March 5th 1887. The name signed, is a little odd because it says Shapiro, but sure doesn't look like Shapiro to me! And from what I understood, even when he got married in 1902, he put an "X" for his mark. He married Gussie Greenberg.
The name Shapiro was massacred so many different ways in the documents I've found, and so much of the information I find is so misspelled, or is incorrect. Evidence on the link to this post!
I found the correct family in census reports back to 1920. I can't locate them in 1910.
I will take look for immigration/ship.
Also on son Ben's delayed birth certificate it says his father Morris Shapiro was born in Stockholm, Sweden.
They are in the 1910 census, but like I said, they misspelled the name so many times that had it not been for me intentionally trying misspelling their last name, I would never have found much of anything! They spelled it Sheppier!
Yes, everything I have found said Morris was born in Sweden, and that is what we have believed we all were, part Swedish. But as the intent shows, he is listed as being born in Germany. Something no one has ever heard before. One of the census shows both his parents as having been born in Sweden - that's incorrect, we know that information is wrong. One census put that Morris was a Dr. - rag peddler was his trade, definitely wrong info.
I haven't had much luck with the immigration. I've found some info but nothing I can say I would be confident enough to say it was good information to go on.
I'm really good at finding info, but this has been frustrating.
Hoping someone can shed some light on this question for me.
First a quick summary of how I got the initial info. I was able to receive a copy of a handwritten paper, not sure which family member originally wrote it, that has some important dates info on it for my Great Grandfather, and my Great Great Grandfather. It seems it's been shared with extended family members over the years. (copy attached to this post)
I was able to contact the Prothonotary for where I knew my Great Great Grandfather Jonas was Naturalized, and I have gotten a copy of his intent and naturalization. Other than these 2 documents, I'm not able to find anything else on him, and find no evidence left the US. What I did find interesting is the intent was 3 days prior to his naturalization. From what I read on the process back then, it doesn't seem possible to have both of those back to back like that.
So now, my question lies with my Great Grandfather, Moses. They were able to find a copy of his intent, but not of his naturalization, shown to had been in Elk County, PA. Whoever wrote this note had a date of naturalization as May 27, 1889. So, if his intent was done in one county is it possible that he was Naturalized in another county in PA and that's why they don't have record of it where his intent was done. It's like pulling teeth to get an answer from the few counties I did try to reach that I knew he lived in. I just want to know who has a copy of his Naturalization so I can order copies.
The paper attached shows the intent day, which matched the actual date of the intent. Whoever wrote these notes must have some kind of paperwork to have been able to know this.
I don't live in PA so I can't do a search at any office, and most offices you call say they can't help, that they are understaffed. How is one suppose to be able to find this info out? Thankfully, Ridgway County was helpful and I was able to get the information they had, but I'd really like to find the Naturalization record for Moses. Through the intent I found he was native of Sweden but it says he was born in Germany - which has been mind blowing since we were always told he was Swedish. I am trying to figure out if this is now correct.
Does anyone know if I could find this information if I went to one of the Family Search offices?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!
Prior to 1906, when the naturalization process was standardized by the Federal gov't., the states played loosey-goosey with the rules. I have the nats of 2 brothers who each were naturalized on the same date & each just vouched for each other. LOL
About being from Sweden / Germany, people moved around. He may have been born in Sweden, but his parents or an older generation were from Germany. He also could have been born in one place & then lived in another prior to coming to the U.S.
I've found that many of our ancestors moved around much more than a lot of us imagine they did.
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to have both of those back to back like that.
I am trying to figure out if this is now correct.
