Tired of the crazy people and the ghetto in California. Considering moving back East. Where to live? (real estate, 2015)

[moshywilly]

I (23 M) moved from New Jersey to the Bay Area about a year ago and I live with family out here. Don’t get me wrong, but California is a fun state with plenty to do and has more fun than the part of New Jersey I lived in, but CA is the most overrated and apocalyptic place ever and while the people are much nicer in CA than the snobby people in NJ, there are too many crazy people and ghetto out here and living here can be like living in a haunted house full of pins and needles.

I am tired of seeing crazy people in saggy pants, people carrying umbrellas when it is sunny, people carrying large backpacks, homeless people, schizophrenic people roaming the area, etc. I am tired of the armed robberies and shootings that happen all over the area. And the minute I am down the hill from the suburbanity where my family lives, it turns into a city and nothing feels safe and people from the Bay Area are biased and don’t understand me and they think “Oh you can go to x and y where it is safe!” but nothing in the Bay Area is as safe as NJ. Even the “suburban cities” that I do my shopping at has occasional panhandling.

My cousin grew up here and so many “incidents” they have witnessed or experienced. In all over California, all you see is fights, arguments, etc. Yesterday we went to a Jack In the Box with my cousin’s friend’s car and a crazy drugged up guy stood at the end of the drive thru staring through people’s cars and tried to flirt with a girl that was in our car. Recently, a crazy woman got scared of my cousin’s tiny chihuahua looking dog and shoved the dog, because she was afraid of a tiny dog. My cousin has witnessed a lot of scary cop chases out here.

Also, the weather here is overrated unless you live on the coast. It is always hot out here and 65 degrees out in the East Bay can feel a lot hotter than a 65 degree day in NJ and also dry heat is overrated and I miss the humidity where I feel more alive. Don’t get me the wrong, the desert backdrops are beautiful, but I would rather take the humid weather with slightly less beautiful scenery for a safer less crowded place to live.

No place out West (and west of the Mississippi River) is great to live. My cousin’s friend went to Eugene, Oregon (not even close to Portland) and a homeless guy asked her for a ride. Oregon and Washington are probably bad and they will become overpopulated with all the Californians leaving California.

I am considering moving back to the East Coast, but not NJ and not right now. It all depends on job situations and maybe I can consider moving back in a few years. The East Coast seems to be the most livable part of the country. Much safer outside the cities, variable price ranges for living, real estate is better in terms of houses being spaced out, no droughts, less job competition, etc.

I am considering southeastern Pennsylvania, because I loved it out there when I visited. I loved almost every East Coast state I “visited”, so I do not know what it is like to “live” in these places I visited. I think I would appreciate living in a “non-major” state that does not have a well known name. I would not live in NJ, CA, or FL for example, because they are too well known. I have a lack of experience with how much this country has to offer, because I only lived in two equivalent states.


I want somewhere with (from most important to least important):

1. Safety: I want to live in a semi-rural area close to suburbs.
2. Scenery: I want to live somewhere that has tons of beautiful scenery and outdoor activities and of course it will not be the same as living in the West, I totally understand.
3. Job market: I need to have access to in-person white collared jobs in case a recession happens where I would need to replace my job.
4. Having the right amount of people my age in an area (Probably would be in my late 20s by the time I leave CA). I am willing to drive miles away to have friends even if I have to go to the main city.
5. Gay bars and gay Meetups: Again, willing to drive far for social life. I need some gay bars and gay Meetup events.
6. Weather: I am used to the weather of NJ, but I want to live somewhere that does not get much more snow than NJ and a place that will not get flooded to lose my home.

[popka]

A lot of the craziness in California is created by their super passive-aggressive attitude. It's like the homeless and such are more assertive than the vast majority of the people that live there. There's definitely a difference between East Coast and West Coast craziness. Stand up for yourself Cali that's all it takes. It seems like a lot of people on the West Coast have never been put in their place or something. But meh the problem is too big now to even try to fix without some kind of future technology.

[moshywilly]

Originally Posted by popka

A lot of the craziness in California is created by their super passive-aggressive attitude. It's like the homeless and such are more assertive than the vast majority of the people that live there. Theres definitely a difference between East Coast and West Coast craziness. Stand up for yourself Cali that's all it takes. But meh the problem is too big now to even try to fix without some kind of future technology.

The reason why California has problems is due to its geographical constraint like the weather. Even though it is super expensive to live there, you do not get a bang for your buck, because you still have unwanted people like the homeless and the crazy people who utilize perfect weather to be outside acting crazy. It was a nicer place when my mom grew up there and you could enjoy the state and the weather (which was cooler weather back then) with less crime.

[fluffydelusions]

Originally Posted by potanta

“Oh you can go to x and y where it is safe!” but nothing in the Bay Area is as safe as NJ.

Not saying the Bay area is safe but there are lots of places in NJ that aren't safe either. Ever been to Camden as an example? A lot of the houses there look like literal prisons where the whole front porch is encased with metal bars and such. There are safe/unsafe cities in both places is what I'm saying.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Don't really understand people and talk of California and crime when it's been proven for a long time that it's perfectly average in respect to crime compared to the nation and generally lacks the extreme pockets of crime you find east of the Mississippi.. Add to this " then your mom grew up there" Califonia was always a top 5 crim state in the 70s and 80s. It declined a lot in terms of danger.

I've spent 4 weeks total in California, never felt like it was exceptionally ghetto at all, a few more crazies sure but it didn't bother me.

Add to this " then your mom grew up there" Califonia was always a top 5 crim state in the 70s and 80s. It declined a lot in terms of danger.

Its all laid out here: https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/cacrime.htm



California Population and Rate of Crime Rank Compared to other States
State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Rape Robbery Assault Burglary Larceny Vehicle
California 1960 1 1 2 2 27 2 2 7 2 2 3
California 1961 1 2 2 2 26 1 4 6 2 2 4
California 1962 1 2 2 2 23 4 4 4 1 2 4
California 1963 1 2 2 2 24 1 4 6 2 2 5
California 1964 1 2 3 2 24 2 4 7 1 2 3
California 1965 1 1 6 1 21 2 4 8 1 1 2
California 1966 1 1 6 1 25 2 5 8 1 2 3
California 1967 1 1 6 1 23 2 5 5 1 2 3
California 1968 1 1 5 1 24 2 5 5 1 1 3
California 1969 1 1 5 1 22 1 5 5 1 1 3
State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Rape Robbery Assault Burglary Larceny Vehicle
California 1970 1 1 5 1 23 2 5 5 1 2 4
California 1971 1 1 5 1 21 3 5 7 1 2 3
California 1972 1 1 5 1 19 2 5 7 1 2 3
California 1973 1 3 6 3 19 3 6 7 2 3 3
California 1974 1 4 7 4 23 3 7 6 4 5 4
California 1975 1 4 7 4 19 3 6 8 4 7 6
California 1976 1 3 3 3 15 3 6 5 3 7 5
California 1977 1 3 3 5 8 2 4 4 3 8 5
California 1978 1 4 4 4 8 3 4 4 2 10 3
California 1979 1 4 4 5 7 3 3 4 2 9 3
State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Rape Robbery Assault Burglary Larceny Vehicle
California 1980 1 4 4 5 5 2 4 3 3 10 4
California 1981 1 4 5 5 7 3 4 5 3 11 6
California 1982 1 3 4 5 10 4 3 9 3 11 5
California 1983 1 3 4 4 8 5 3 7 2 12 6
California 1984 1 6 4 7 6 9 2 8 4 11 5
California 1985 1 8 4 9 7 11 2 9 9 12 3
California 1986 1 7 3 8 6 11 3 4 9 13 4
California 1987 1 7 3 11 7 10 4 2 11 15 3
California 1988 1 6 3 8 9 12 4 2 10 12 1
California 1989 1 5 3 8 7 15 5 3 11 13 1
State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Rape Robbery Assault Burglary Larceny Vehicle
California 1990 1 6 3 9 5 19 4 3 11 19 2
California 1991 1 4 3 8 6 20 3 5 11 20 1
California 1992 1 4 3 8 4 23 3 6 7 21 1
California 1993 1 4 2 8 4 26 3 5 6 21 1
California 1994 1 8 3 12 5 29 4 5 10 24 2
California 1995 1 13 6 18 5 27 3 6 12 28 2
California 1996 1 19 6 22 9 27 4 7 19 35 2
California 1997 1 22 7 30 13 31 6 8 20 37 5
California 1998 1 27 9 32 19 33 7 10 24 38 6
California 1999 1 29 10 34 20 34 7 11 27 40 7
State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Rape Robbery Assault Burglary Larceny Vehicle
California 2000 1 30 9 33 16 31 7 9 26 40 7
California 2001 1 29 8 33 14 30 6 10 25 39 5
California 2002 1 27 10 28 12 31 6 10 25 38 5
California 2003 1 26 10 26 10 32 6 10 25 38 4
California 2004 1 24 12 25 9 37 6 16 22 35 3
California 2005 1 24 14 26 11 39 5 17 23 37 5
California 2006 1 26 14 29 12 41 4 18 23 37 4
California 2007 1 26 13 29 17 40 5 17 25 38 3
California 2008 1 26 14 25 16 41 5 19 25 40 3
California 2009 1 28 16 29 18 43 5 19 26 42 2
State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Rape Robbery Assault Burglary Larceny Vehicle
California 2010 1 28 17 30 20 41 5 19 25 39 1
California 2011 1 28 18 30 20 45 6 19 26 41 1
California 2012 1 25 16 24 18 45 5 19 24 38 1
California 2013 1 25 18 27 21 44 3 21 20 39 1
California 2014 1 27 17 29 23 40 4 21 23 38 2
California 2015 1 23 13 25 22 37 3 21 21 28 1
California 2016 1 25 15 27 26 35 4 19 23 29 2
State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Rape Robbery Assault Burglary Larceny Vehicle

[BostonBornMassMade]

when people say California is "ghetto" is that like... 'code' for non-white and densely populated? (as it is in most of the settled area)

[moshywilly]

Originally Posted by fluffydelusions

Not saying the Bay area is safe but there are lots of places in NJ that aren't safe either. Ever been to Camden as an example? A lot of the houses there look like literal prisons where the whole front porch is encased with metal bars and such. There are safe/unsafe cities in both places is what I'm saying.

I already knew that NJ has dangerous places. I went to Newark for college and I would take Newark over Oakland in a heartbeat. Newark is a boring place, while Oakland is a fun place, but Newark does not have the Californian type of ghetto. The East Coast and West Coast hoods are two very different environments.

[EckyX]

I took some selective quotes:

Originally Posted by potanta

I am tired of... people carrying large backpacks ... nothing feels safe and people from the Bay Area are biased and don’t understand me and they think “Oh you can go to x and y where it is safe!” but nothing in the Bay Area is as safe as NJ.

No place out West (and west of the Mississippi River) is great to live.

I am considering moving back to the East Coast, but not NJ and not right now. It all depends on job situations and maybe I can consider moving back in a few years.

The East Coast seems to be the most livable part of the country. I loved almost every East Coast state I “visited”, so I do not know what it is like to “live” in these places I visited.

I don't think you have a good sense of the east coast, and you're idolizing New Jersey (which to me is a dump).

Go to City Data's front page and scroll down to the interactive map. Play with the "crime" statistics. Broadly speaking, most of the east is more dangerous than most of the west. Oakland is one of the darker spots in the entire West. I will grant however, that it's probably more important to "feel" safe than to actually be safe, if the problem with where you're living is psychological.

Originally Posted by potanta

I think I would appreciate living in a “non-major” state that does not have a well known name. I would not live in NJ, CA, or FL for example, because they are too well known. I have a lack of experience with how much this country has to offer, because I only lived in two equivalent states.

New Jersey is not a major state and should not be mentioned in the same sentence as CA and FL.

Anyhow, addressing your list:

Originally Posted by potanta

I want somewhere with (from most important to least important):

1. Safety: I want to live in a semi-rural area close to suburbs.
2. Scenery: I want to live somewhere that has tons of beautiful scenery and outdoor activities and of course it will not be the same as living in the West, I totally understand.
3. Job market: I need to have access to in-person white collared jobs in case a recession happens where I would need to replace my job.
4. Having the right amount of people my age in an area (Probably would be in my late 20s by the time I leave CA). I am willing to drive miles away to have friends even if I have to go to the main city.
5. Gay bars and gay Meetups: Again, willing to drive far for social life. I need some gay bars and gay Meetup events.
6. Weather: I am used to the weather of NJ, but I want to live somewhere that does not get much more snow than NJ and a place that will not get flooded to lose my home.

1) There are indices that show the safest cities and safest states. In absolute terms, New England is the safest region, followed by the Pacific Northwest and interior west (Idaho, Wyoming, Utah specifically).

2) Subjectively, Vermont is one of the most beautiful places I have ever seen. Lake Michigan is absolutely stunning. Upstate NY, especially the Adirondacks, is incredible. These aren't grand like most of the west, but the west does not have a monopoly on natural beauty. Even endless stretches of cornfields in the Midwest can be beautiful in the right light. Beauty is important to me too, but it's very subjective.

3) There are indices that show unemployment by state. Interestingly, most of the same safe regions also have generally low unemployment rates.

4 & 5) You'll find most young people in cities, not in suburbs. Suburbs are typically where you move when you're getting older and want to start a family. Suburbs are also typically not as gay friendly, or as racially diverse.

6) Weather is something you get used to. Growing up in Florida, I always thought places like Georgia had relatively brutal winters. Then I moved to Vermont, and experienced temperatures 40 below zero. And, I was fine. You just dress for the weather. Mild weather does have its perks, but New Jersey (IMO) does not have remotely mild summers or winters, if that's your benchmark.


Burlington VT (a nearby small city I know well, so I'll use it as an example) has an unemployment rate of basically zero. It's in one of the safest places in the country. The natural scenery is stunning. There are plenty of tech jobs, and competition for the jobs is basically non-existent. Most employers get *zero* applications for weeks or months at a time, so you basically have your pick of jobs. It's also an area basically unaffected by recessions. It's in one of the most progressive states (highest percent of gay households in the nation) and Burlington is where a vast majority of young people in the state move. The average age is under 27 years.

I don't personally suspect you'd care for Burlington, and I'm not trying to sell you on it. Really, just trying to examine some of your points and hopefully help you to make a decision. I see a lot of idolizing of New Jersey, which just makes me shake my head.

[moshywilly]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Don't really understand people and talk of California and crime when it's been proven for a long time that it's perfectly average in respect to crime compared to the nation and generally lacks the extreme pockets of crime you find east of the Mississippi.. Add to this " then your mom grew up there" Califonia was always a top 5 crim state in the 70s and 80s. It declined a lot in terms of danger.

I've spent 4 weeks total in California, never felt like it was exceptionally ghetto at all, a few more crazies sure but it didn't bother me.

Add to this " then your mom grew up there" Califonia was always a top 5 crim state in the 70s and 80s. It declined a lot in terms of danger.

Its all laid out here: https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/cacrime.htm



California Population and Rate of Crime Rank Compared to other States
State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Rape Robbery Assault Burglary Larceny Vehicle
California 1960 1 1 2 2 27 2 2 7 2 2 3
California 1961 1 2 2 2 26 1 4 6 2 2 4
California 1962 1 2 2 2 23 4 4 4 1 2 4
California 1963 1 2 2 2 24 1 4 6 2 2 5
California 1964 1 2 3 2 24 2 4 7 1 2 3
California 1965 1 1 6 1 21 2 4 8 1 1 2
California 1966 1 1 6 1 25 2 5 8 1 2 3
California 1967 1 1 6 1 23 2 5 5 1 2 3
California 1968 1 1 5 1 24 2 5 5 1 1 3
California 1969 1 1 5 1 22 1 5 5 1 1 3
State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Rape Robbery Assault Burglary Larceny Vehicle
California 1970 1 1 5 1 23 2 5 5 1 2 4
California 1971 1 1 5 1 21 3 5 7 1 2 3
California 1972 1 1 5 1 19 2 5 7 1 2 3
California 1973 1 3 6 3 19 3 6 7 2 3 3
California 1974 1 4 7 4 23 3 7 6 4 5 4
California 1975 1 4 7 4 19 3 6 8 4 7 6
California 1976 1 3 3 3 15 3 6 5 3 7 5
California 1977 1 3 3 5 8 2 4 4 3 8 5
California 1978 1 4 4 4 8 3 4 4 2 10 3
California 1979 1 4 4 5 7 3 3 4 2 9 3
State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Rape Robbery Assault Burglary Larceny Vehicle
California 1980 1 4 4 5 5 2 4 3 3 10 4
California 1981 1 4 5 5 7 3 4 5 3 11 6
California 1982 1 3 4 5 10 4 3 9 3 11 5
California 1983 1 3 4 4 8 5 3 7 2 12 6
California 1984 1 6 4 7 6 9 2 8 4 11 5
California 1985 1 8 4 9 7 11 2 9 9 12 3
California 1986 1 7 3 8 6 11 3 4 9 13 4
California 1987 1 7 3 11 7 10 4 2 11 15 3
California 1988 1 6 3 8 9 12 4 2 10 12 1
California 1989 1 5 3 8 7 15 5 3 11 13 1
State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Rape Robbery Assault Burglary Larceny Vehicle
California 1990 1 6 3 9 5 19 4 3 11 19 2
California 1991 1 4 3 8 6 20 3 5 11 20 1
California 1992 1 4 3 8 4 23 3 6 7 21 1
California 1993 1 4 2 8 4 26 3 5 6 21 1
California 1994 1 8 3 12 5 29 4 5 10 24 2
California 1995 1 13 6 18 5 27 3 6 12 28 2
California 1996 1 19 6 22 9 27 4 7 19 35 2
California 1997 1 22 7 30 13 31 6 8 20 37 5
California 1998 1 27 9 32 19 33 7 10 24 38 6
California 1999 1 29 10 34 20 34 7 11 27 40 7
State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Rape Robbery Assault Burglary Larceny Vehicle
California 2000 1 30 9 33 16 31 7 9 26 40 7
California 2001 1 29 8 33 14 30 6 10 25 39 5
California 2002 1 27 10 28 12 31 6 10 25 38 5
California 2003 1 26 10 26 10 32 6 10 25 38 4
California 2004 1 24 12 25 9 37 6 16 22 35 3
California 2005 1 24 14 26 11 39 5 17 23 37 5
California 2006 1 26 14 29 12 41 4 18 23 37 4
California 2007 1 26 13 29 17 40 5 17 25 38 3
California 2008 1 26 14 25 16 41 5 19 25 40 3
California 2009 1 28 16 29 18 43 5 19 26 42 2
State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Rape Robbery Assault Burglary Larceny Vehicle
California 2010 1 28 17 30 20 41 5 19 25 39 1
California 2011 1 28 18 30 20 45 6 19 26 41 1
California 2012 1 25 16 24 18 45 5 19 24 38 1
California 2013 1 25 18 27 21 44 3 21 20 39 1
California 2014 1 27 17 29 23 40 4 21 23 38 2
California 2015 1 23 13 25 22 37 3 21 21 28 1
California 2016 1 25 15 27 26 35 4 19 23 29 2
State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Rape Robbery Assault Burglary Larceny Vehicle

When my mom lived there in the 80s, parts of California had hippies like Berkeley, but not as bad as the level of weirdos you see today.

[fluffydelusions]

Originally Posted by potanta

I already knew that NJ has dangerous places. I went to Newark for college and I would take Newark over Oakland in a heartbeat. Newark is a boring place, while Oakland is a fun place, but Newark does not have the Californian type of ghetto. The East Coast and West Coast hoods are two very different environments.

For sure. I believe the only state that has more gangs than California is Illinois.