Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think we all know that Social Security is more than just the retirement benefits which can be drawn starting at age 62 (with reduced amounts for taking them "early"). Our payroll taxes also are paying for disability insurance. But I am troubled by the sheer number and by the growing prevalence of the disability claims.
I note in The 2010 Annual Report of the Board of Trustees of the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Funds that at the end of 2009, 18.5% of the people receiving monthly benefits were receiving disability benefits - about 9.7 million people (page 30). How can there be almost 10 million disabled in the United States? It boggles the mind! In dollar terms, 17.5% of total benefit payments are going to the disabled (page 31). Moreover, the disability prevalence rates have gone up every year since 1990, with the exception of 1997, when they stayed the same (page 131).
Unquestionably there are people who are truly disabled and truly cannot work. But I can't help wonder how many don't want to work. For Social Security puposes, disability is defined as "the inability to engage in substantial gainful activity by reason of any medically determinable physical or mental impairment that can be expected to last for a continuous period of not less than 12 months" (page 211, emphasis mine). I wonder if some of the "mental impairment" could be cured by a good swift kick in the ass, metaphorical or otherwise?
There are disability hearings but the Trustees' Report does not say anything about them and I know nothing about them. Perhaps some of you will post here and enlighten me. I suppose it's impossible to know the percentage of imposters to deserving cases. Am I the only one with troubling doubts? I would not want to deny aid to the legitimately disabled. How well is the system limiting the aid to just them? Does someone out there know?
I have qualms about the criteria being used to define disability, and eligibility for disability benefits. I believe that while many with mental illnesses cannot engage in gainful employment, there are many who have family members that are earning a full wage and are able to support the disabled person living with them. Sometimes people have amassed substantial wealth before qualifying for disability benefits. In these cases these payments are not warranted until the financial status of these families have deteriorated to a "need-based" level. SS should not be used to maintain a higher standard of living.
There are people with mental or physical "disabilities" who are able to perform temporary work, although not in their preferred field. I believe that this should not qualify as permanent disabilities - only temporary, as needed.
Social security benefits and Medicare are also given to well-off people who subsequently retire. I do not agree with this either. Probably the best thing to do is to phase out the system and have people save for their own eventuality.
While governments need to provide basic needs for disabled/elderly people who can't take care of themselves, it is probably best to do so in a very structured, low-cost, highly efficient manner.... rather than disbursing random checks to random people each month, with the money subsequently being spent on random things. I am sure some people are capable of budgeting wisely, but I also believe that many of them can't. A lot of fraud occurs too. There needs to be some accountability here.
My wife is on disability. She has multiple spinal problems that has resulted in her being in chronic pain. She's strong willed and independent and so she tries to do things for herself like cooking and cleaning. She'll take 10 to 20 minutes mopping the kitchen and bathroom floor and then spend the next few days on the strongest of her pain medicine and muscle relaxants. She can't sit upright for long. Most of her day is in the recliner on the heating pad. She use to put together the carts for surgery and before that she was a nanny (she cared for former Louisiana Congressman Chris John's twin boys). Turn the tables,...our neighbor is on disability for her back and yet was working full time being paid in cash as an office cleaner.
I think we all know that Social Security is more than just the retirement benefits which can be drawn starting at age 62 (with reduced amounts for taking them "early"). Our payroll taxes also are paying for disability insurance. But I am troubled by the sheer number and by the growing prevalence of the disability claims.
I note in The 2010 Annual Report of the Board of Trustees of the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Funds that at the end of 2009, 18.5% of the people receiving monthly benefits were receiving disability benefits - about 9.7 million people (page 30). How can there be almost 10 million disabled in the United States? It boggles the mind! In dollar terms, 17.5% of total benefit payments are going to the disabled (page 31). Moreover, the disability prevalence rates have gone up every year since 1990, with the exception of 1997, when they stayed the same (page 131).
Unquestionably there are people who are truly disabled and truly cannot work. But I can't help wonder how many don't want to work. For Social Security puposes, disability is defined as "the inability to engage in substantial gainful activity by reason of any medically determinable physical or mental impairment that can be expected to last for a continuous period of not less than 12 months" (page 211, emphasis mine). I wonder if some of the "mental impairment" could be cured by a good swift kick in the ass, metaphorical or otherwise?
There are disability hearings but the Trustees' Report does not say anything about them and I know nothing about them. Perhaps some of you will post here and enlighten me. I suppose it's impossible to know the percentage of imposters to deserving cases. Am I the only one with troubling doubts? I would not want to deny aid to the legitimately disabled. How well is the system limiting the aid to just them? Does someone out there know?
I watched a former friend go through the application for disability process. It isn't that easy to get. She applied because she had a slow-growing type of non-Hodgkins lymphoma that could be treated but never cured. Although she had been an admin assistant and had been laid off, she couldn't exactly go job-hunting while undergoing chemo, which took almost a year, and besides, if she had managed to get a job, she would lose the charity care through which she was getting treatment yet any health benefits through a new job would not cover her pre-existing treatment.
She applied for ss disability and was immediately rejected. They immediately reject almost everyone the first time, hoping that you will either die before you can apply again or you will give up. You can appeal twice. She was rejected the second time as well, and then she got a lawyer. Even with the lawyer it was difficult--her lawyer called and asked her why she thought she was entitled to ss disability just because she had cancer, because cancer patients often work right up until they are near death so SS doesn't tend to approve them. However, she simply had no income, from anywhere, so he suggested she take advantage of the local mental health center, which wasn't out of line because she WAS depressed and a recovering alcoholic besides. He reapplied for the third time to SS, this time as a mental health disability. There still was no answer for months (this whole process took about a year and a half) until finally on her behalf I wrote to our congresspeople. Every congressperson has an SS person on their staff. While they can't force a decision, they CAN get some attention paid to your claim.
She was finally approved for SS disability on a mental-health basis. She finished her chemo, which was free through charity care because it was a clinical trial, but she has to return every six months to be checked to see if the slow-growing cancer begins to go into an accelerated phase again.
I supported my friend's efforts through all this, because she had worked hard for years and really needed not to be on the streets while she was undergoing treatment, but then--she decided to start drinking again once her treatment was finished, after nearly a decade of sobriety. She went into month-long rehab, again, paid for by charity care, three times within a year, always starting again with slugging down vodka for breakfast within a week of getting out of the facility, and she was collecting that SS check all along.
She's 47 years old and I doubt she'll see 50. I would also lay down money that it won't be cancer that kills her--she already appears brain-damaged from the alcohol and the related withdrawal seizures, and she's starting to get those varicose-type veins in her legs that alkies get, so that means they are likely forming internally as well.
I am angry and broke off all contact with her as of six months ago. After all that, after getting $350K worth of cancer treatment on the people of the state of NJ, after all of us who helped her along the way and after doing what I could to help her get her disability, she just tossed it all away and became the stereotype of what people hate about social assistance programs.
This concern with the validity of claims on our collective wealth is troubling to me for the fact that many people seem to be focused on these kinds of situations thinking that the reduction of said benefits would somehow automatically put more into the collective kitty and thus enrich those who are deemed to be truly deserving. Regardless of how we feel about those who don't/won't work the truth of our limited economic opportunities is there for all to see. Call it welfare, SSDI or whatever, the fact remains that few Americans can now find a decent job in their fifties and beyond and will be needing some kind of relief.
Yes, most of the programs that were set up to help people through their hard times are subject to fraud, but why are we always focused on that aspect of these programs? I believe the answer to that is found in a media that has been focused on that angle almost to the exclusion of the real story that would surface otherwise. How often are we treated to a special on the tube that focuses on the terrible injustices suffered by a lot of folks trying to get some help from the government, waiting for months and years with no income while their claim is reviewed and then possibly denied. Even though we are fully aware of these cases we still succumb to the popular opinion as presented by those on top with an agenda. In hard times it isn't all that rare to see the low men looking at other low men as a depository of blame for their collective misery.
Should we lower or end the pensions of those public service retirees because some weren't all that great a worker? Should we throw out SS altogether because it takes from the pockets of some who don't agree with it's existence? Should we abandon those who are too old, or too sick because we had no role in creating their despairing situation? These are the solutions that most will offer when confronted with an opportunity to save a few bucks on their taxes, the truly ignorant won't see the potential for their own unfortunate downfall and subsequent need for these programs, and the truly greedy will gloat over their opportunity to lash out at their much hated enemy the government worker who they assume is stealing their future. I would rather ponder the truly disturbing thievery from our treasury that we have witnessed these last few years in America, it makes the SSDI cheat look like a real piker. Why worry about the pennies when the big boys are stealing your dollars?
i think more energy needs to be put in the following areas instead of just giving people money/denying people who need it:
1) employ the disabled that can physically work. most of us can work. most of us want to work. the only reason we can't or don't is cause we can't get a job. the problem is with getting hired.
a) education. more employers need to know what kind of work disabled people can do and understand which disabilities affect which tasks and how. most people think, for example, that the blind can't use a computer, that the deaf have no way of contacting customers without being able to hear on the phone. but we can, and do. if more employers knew this more employers would hire us. set up programs that teach employers the reality of disability.
b) eliminate the liabilities. many employers are scared to hire us cause of a.d.a. law. they're afraid to have their company sued. change the law so that employers don't fear us. discrimination lawsuits aren't saving us, they're hurting us. and to go along with it, enforce the laws that make it illegal for insurance companies to charge more for disabled workers.
c) spend the money usually spent sending as checks to cover initial costs instead. cover the cost of adaptive technology. cover the cost of training. by sending us checks, the government is catching us fish. by buying the disabled adaptive equipment and training them, the government is teaching us how to fish. it's a one-time cost and then we can actually contribute to the economy, instead of draining it.
2) redefine the criteria for disability. visible doesn't mean worse, invisible doesn't mean nonexistent. too many people are hung up on that thinking. people confuse what's medically obvious with what actually interferes with the ability to work.
a) some disabilities that qualify now can be so easily accommodated. classic examples are blindness and deafness. it's literally just a matter of a cctv, or a braille display, or a kurzweil reader. using relay or email instead of the phone. finite, concrete solutions.
b) some disabilities that really do interfere with the ability to work are near impossible to qualify under. examples are severe chronic pain and severe depression. i'm not talking about minor pain or depression. i'm talking about people who have been hospitalized, who have tried therapy and meds. i'm talking about people who can't sit or stand or lie down for long enough to do any work. people that are in so much pain their ability to focus and perform cognitive tasks are compromised.
i think if we started with just that, it would cause a huge improvement in the system.
At times I wonder how qualified those people are in SSDI. I have one friend, a nurse who worked two jobs for many years. She had six surgeries on the discs in her back, was in constant pain. She was 60 years old and denied three times by SSDI.
Another friend has chronic MS. She was 40 years old, has episodes every once in a while, tiled two bathrooms, painted the entire inside of her house, etc. yet was approved the first time she applied to SSDI. The slightest pain she gets she has a panic attack. She refuses to take the injections for her problem because she doesn't like giving herself a needle. What a joke.
People know how to work the system and the doctors may not be the sharpest crayons in the box. There is so much fraud in SSDI and those in need are denied.
My wife is on disability. She has multiple spinal problems that has resulted in her being in chronic pain. She's strong willed and independent and so she tries to do things for herself like cooking and cleaning. She'll take 10 to 20 minutes mopping the kitchen and bathroom floor and then spend the next few days on the strongest of her pain medicine and muscle relaxants. She can't sit upright for long. Most of her day is in the recliner on the heating pad. She use to put together the carts for surgery and before that she was a nanny (she cared for former Louisiana Congressman Chris John's twin boys). Turn the tables,...our neighbor is on disability for her back and yet was working full time being paid in cash as an office cleaner.
There is no question that some people have real disabilities... But are you destitute and needing the disability check to support her? Isn't a dependent taken into account when you have your income tax deduction? There is no rule that every household needs 2 incomes. I'm not saying people should be ineligible but with the lack of funds I wonder how viable it would be to pay for everyone.
I pay 2.6k/year just in disability insurance alone... this will probably go up to 10k/year as I start earning more money. Don't most people have some sort of disability insurance also?
I mean it would be nice if our society could provide for everyone who has unfortunate life circumstances. But this is far from the truth. Like Mightyqueen said, $350k was spent on her alcoholic friend with slow-growing lymphoma. People with that condition could live for 20+ years, and yes, they can return to work. I've seen and known plenty of people who have done this, taking a leave of absence for every chemo treatment. It doesn't make you an invalid forever.
Don't get me started about SSI/Medicaid for illegal immigrants with first time diagnosis of cancer. That is a huge, huge expense, at least in my state.
I have been on SSI for more then a decade now, and if I could, I would work. I live in constant pain from a severe back injury incurred while working as an RN. After 2 back surgeries, I went from bad to worse, and was not walking for 2 years. The pain was torture and more then I could bear. I asked my husband more then once to help me commit suicide.
After being told I would need a titanium cage from my mid-back all the way down to my tailbone, or else end up in a wheelchair and paralyzed, I did some long hard thinking. And with that news, I made up my mind to come back to health, most importantly to start walking again.
Very very long story short.....I have gotten myself walking again, yet the pain is my constant companion. I am unable to sit for long periods of time, no more then one hour at a time. I can only do so much cleaning, and then I must lay down to get off my feet. If I overdo, I end up in bed for days. I can only be on my feet for so long, before my legs ache so bad they feel as though they were going to fall off. And then again, I must get off my feet.
I swim and I do Yoga to keep strong, never ever giving up that this pain will some day go.
I am smart. I am a professional. Yet, because I am unable to be committed to a job, I am unable to work. The system is wrong, so wrong, for I have so much to contribute to other people, on a schedule I can handle. That means, day to day. That means, if I am having a really bad pain day or "spell" that I have called them, I could have the option to stay home. No employer to my knowledge, would agree to that. I couldn't be relied on. Or how about working from my home, getting paid for work that I could do during the times I felt good enough to do so?
I have gone through severe depressions, for my life as I had known it, disappeared. I have tried recreating myself time and time again, but I always seem to end up staring at pain. Does anyone here know what it is like to live in pain constantly, without letup? It will, it can drive one insane. It has me at times. It has me.
Sure, I would love to see the SSI system change. People here are correct in saying it is extremely difficult to even be accepted after filing. I was denied a total of 3 times and finally after facing a judge one-on-one and telling him how I don't even have a life outside of my bedroom for being bed bound, he saw the pain, he saw the truth, and finally allowed me to have SSI.
I hear grumblings all the time how employed people are paying for Social Security. If I could trade places with them, I would in a heartbeat, believe me. They have no idea the nightmare of not being able to go anyplace, no flying, no dancing, no vacations, all because of this constant pain. I used to love life, I used to live life, and now, I feel as though I am just existing. I feel like I have become a mere shadow of myself over the years, and sometimes I look into the mirror and see my sunken eyes with dark circles, and ask......"Who are you?" There are days I don't know anymore.
I love anything creative and try to keep busy with my sewing machine, with my artwork, with my arts and crafts. I love animals, and take care of now, from my home, cats that have come to me over the years in a state of near death, or illness, or abuse. I have taken them all in and love them, gently and carefully bringing them all back to health. Why? Because I know what it is like to hurt, to be in pain, to be ill. If it were not for these precious cats, I would have committed suicide a long time ago.
So, before anyone judges, and yes, I agree there is plenty of fraud, but in ALL areas of life.......think of my story. A story of a woman who refuses to give up, who fights with pain 24 hours of every day for the past 17 years, and who would love to have a good and happy life back. That life would include a social life again, that life would include friends again, and that life would make me feel as though I am contributing to this world for the good. And of course, that life would be free from pain.
Thank you all for listening.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Fraud in SSDI
