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Now that I have your attention, this thread doesn't have a thing to do with "government panels" but it has everything to do with the expense both in terms of money and quality of life that comes from a culture that seemingly can't come to grips with the simple fact that death, is the price we pay for life. So instead of accepting that fact we pursue absurdly futile attempt to prolong life well past any rational point, at great cost and with little regard for the quality of life of the terminally ill.
I strongly suggest, I insist that folks read the linked article before jumping into the fray.
People have concerns besides simply prolonging their lives. Surveys of patients with terminal illness find that their top priorities include, in addition to avoiding suffering, being with family, having the touch of others, being mentally aware, and not becoming a burden to others. Our system of technological medical care has utterly failed to meet these needs, and the cost of this failure is measured in far more than dollars. The hard question we face, then, is not how we can afford this system’s expense. It is how we can build a health-care system that will actually help dying patients achieve what’s most important to them at the end of their lives.
Most people are able to make reasonable decisions about their health care, no matter what sort of system gets implemented. It's only Chicken-Little politicians (from both sides) pandering for votes who come up with these dire scenarios to convince you that the world will end if you vote for their opponent.
Now that I have your attention, this thread doesn't have a thing to do with "government panels" but it has everything to do with the expense both in terms of money and quality of life that comes from a culture that seemingly can't come to grips with the simple fact that death, is the price we pay for life. So instead of accepting that fact we pursue absurdly futile attempt to prolong life well past any rational point, at great cost and with little regard for the quality of life of the terminally ill.
I strongly suggest, I insist that folks read the linked article before jumping into the fray.
People have concerns besides simply prolonging their lives. Surveys of patients with terminal illness find that their top priorities include, in addition to avoiding suffering, being with family, having the touch of others, being mentally aware, and not becoming a burden to others. Our system of technological medical care has utterly failed to meet these needs, and the cost of this failure is measured in far more than dollars. The hard question we face, then, is not how we can afford this system’s expense. It is how we can build a health-care system that will actually help dying patients achieve what’s most important to them at the end of their lives.
I believe it is a personal matter that the government should not interfere with. If I am so ill and ask my life to be ended, so be it. It is my life and I should decide when it is time to go.
As far as a health care issue. As horrible as it sounds, we only have so much money in the pot. Taxpayers can only afford so much. Taxes are used not only for health care, a lot of other areas.
With this in mind, things need to prioritized. Where should health care rate? Well, I do not think there will be a full concensus. Even if it rates at the top people will vary as how high the need to save a 90 year old as compared to a 15 year old. Personally? I would not rate I being as high a priority over a young teen, let me go if there are not enough funds to save me, take care.
So Op is sayingleave iot has iot is because people noiw makeup their own mind. Suicide isn't that ahrd to accomlish. But society doing it is death panel in reality.There are m,illios of people who refuse treatemnt for terminal illness and even thsoe who refuse treatemnt of everyday problems that lead to death;like drug and alcohol abuse.
I believe it is a personal matter that the government should not interfere with.
As the article that you didn't read points out, one of the highest costs paid out by Medicare (GOVERNMENT) is for futile "life prolonging" care. In Arizona the state (GOVERNMENT) has placed limits, if not out and out eliminated funding for certain transplant procedures, in each and every case GOVERNMENT is REQUIRED to "interfere" at some level or another. So let's drop the canard and address the issue of the thread; be it through private insurance, trust fund, or government subsidies Americans pay absurdly exorbitant fees for services DEMANDED not always by the patients themselves but by a culture that believes that it is capable of deterring death.
So to repeat.
Now that I have your attention, this thread doesn't have a thing to do with "government panels" but it has everything to do with the expense both in terms of money and quality of life that comes from a culture that seemingly can't come to grips with the simple fact that death, is the price we pay for life. So instead of accepting that fact we pursue absurdly futile attempt to prolong life well past any rational point, at great cost and with little regard for the quality of life of the terminally ill.
I strongly suggest, In fact I insist that folks read the linked article before jumping into the fray.
I was not surprised to read that in most cases, those who went through the gambit of chemo, radiation, experimental drugs, etc., had a much more difficult time at the end, and a significantly lower quality of life. Aside from the toxic nature of these treatments, there is IMO a toxicity in the very consciousness of that kind of approach to terminal conditions.
This goes deeper than money, this desperate need to prolong our lives through artificial means is like an obsession. Everyone's terrified to die, and we are indeed CONDITIONED to be terrified. Instead of seeing death as a transformation, a journey, or a doorway, we are taught to see it as the enemy, to deny it, to fight it, and to hate & fear it. This puts doctors like the one who wrote the article in a precariuos position...he might want to be honest with his patient and say that all the treatments in the world won't matter and will only cause more discomfort, but in the case of someone like the woman who was a young, new mother, it's a HARD thing to do. That woman and her family wanted, with every ounce of their souls, for her to have the chance to raise and know her daughter. In the end, I was extremely saddened at the way it ended for her, and at her mother's realization that all the lengths they went to only succeeded in making her end a more painful and frightening one. No chance for good-byes or "I love you"s...unable to breathe, let alone speak.
This subject is close to my heart, because my father died from lung cancer in 1996, and he made sure his wishes were clear to us...no recusitation. He went through chemo. for awhile, reacted well to it on the first round and outlived his prognosis by over 2 years. When his remission ended, he knew it was time and told us "no more chemo." He wanted to die at home, with us beside him, comfortable in his own bed, surrounded by his books. We had the suport of Hospice, I really can't say enough good about this organization, they made sure he had enough pain meds to be comfortable and were always there for us if we had questions or needed them in any way. It was a peaceful passing, he was even cracking jokes and smiling that last day. It was a gift to be there holding his hand, knowing he was never going to suffer again, when it happened. I'm grateful that we didn't have to be in a hospital among strangers and strange smells, or see him rigged up to all sorts of tubes. He passed with dignity, and without struggle. I should also add that he was a philosopher and writer, and had always been comfortable pondering, writing about and talking about things like death...I'm sure this has a lot to do with why he was able to express his wishes so early on and with such solid conviction...in doing so, he spared mom and I from ever having to make those horrible decisions.
People need to start acknowledging death as the inevitability it is, and talk about their wishes with family members so there's no room for doubt.
Thank you for sharing this article, I hope a few people actually take the time to sit down and read it.
Thanks for taking the time to read it. Yes it was long but I think that it is something that most folks need to wrap their heads around especially if they are like me, aging, and have a precondition which will land them face to face with lingering terminal illnesses.
What spired my interest in the topic was an article about a British patient who had some rare (it seems like all cancer stories are about some rare strain) cancer that was in remiss for a number of years only to spring back in a more virulent form. He was denied an cancer treatment which might have prolonged his life for a few weeks or perhaps even a month by the National Health Service and both he and his doctor were quite fine with that decision, because those last weeks and or maybe a month would have consumed with the treatment itself.
When I think of my own situation, I have absolutely no intention of running up tens of thousands of dollars in bills for my family to prevent something even more inevitable that taxes. Nor, do I have any intention whatsoever of dying in some lime green or pastel colored hospital room while chasing some treatment that do more for my doctors conscience than it will for my quality of life or death as the case may be.
Now I have tried to steer clear of injecting this thread with politics, but the fact is end of care for the terminally ill consumes 27% of all medicaid payouts, it a major source, perhaps even more than treatment for the uninsured, for the rise in the cost of healthcare. By coming to grips with the fact that we all must die the economic issues, that affect us all, can no longer be ignored or assumed, and the only way is for us all to come grips with the fact that death is price we all must pay for life.
I too, read through the article, and although it was informative, it really did'nt make a connection with the quality of life in this families tragic saga,
in my own understanding, life has always been contrasted within the many varying degrees of quality that one has, or does not have in their life. Yes,
this unfortunate girl had reached the end of her road long before the point of fairness or normalcy, but those thirty-four years that she did get, must
have given her insight, to an understanding, that life itself is a terminal condition, and as Jim Morrison once said about life,: "no one gets out of it, alive".
My own thoughts are much like ovcatto's thoughts, the closer I get to that parting moment, the more I continue to dwell upon it, ponder the thought
of doing what I feel to be the right thing to do. One thing that I'll surely disregard will be the religious dogma, the consecrated ground, no creamation,
the "going to hell for ending it" fear, which has become as fabled as the dish that ran away with the spoon. I'm old now by my own understanding of life,
I've gathered many blessings, life has been good to me, but still I keep in sight the sands of the hourglass. I have moments where the glass might appear
to be half full but in my heart I know that it is 66 percent empty and the ice has melted, rendering the remnants lukewarm.
Sometimes, I resent the fact that whatever life we get, there are issues that must always remain exclusively within our control, yet, the government
has partnered with us, even unto our end. If euthanasia is a crime, it is only a crime against the individual, there is no pound of flesh to be paid to any
authority that stands above us, save God if He truly exists. I often call to mind that great movie: Soylent Green and of how death was dealt with in a
futuristic society, a time and place that, when seen with a mindset which has seen the greatest predictions of a, once laughable Jules Verne, come true.
If one were to consider that we are living in a society which executes an individual because they are unworthy of rehabilitation, have lost every hope of
redemption, no longer serve a mortal purpose, then why would they not be willing to see that those who are terminally ill, people with no hope for recovery,
those for whom the hourglass has been emptied or clogged beyond repair, go off into an ending of their own personal choice? Must government "nanny" us,
even to the point of death?
Yes, it's a thought provoking subject, some would avoid even broaching the question of death. People like me never stop thinking about it. I guess
that I'm a surviving realist, a functional alcoholic, haunted by a 50 year engagement with tobacco, as a mechanic that has washed down with much benzine,
a welder who has welded mucho galvanized, a prostate cancer victim who once broke his neck, I know that even a cat has only nine lives. Whenever my mind
dwells in the domain of the dying, I always reflect or project that moment, based on these two considerations: what does it look like for the future and what has
life been for you in the past. I'll always feel in my heart that I've gotten my share, for or in spite of the way that I've lived my life, I'm a lucky, lucky man indeed!
Somehow, your original post has inspired me to pull out and dust off, Dalton Trumbo's great novel: "Johnny got his gun", it serves to keep me believing that there
is a time for life and there is a time for death. In any case, it's exclusively, OUR time.
If I ever get to the point where I can't wipe my own ass, stand up, or enjoy anything, I'm going to order a few tanks of carbon monoxide, put on a mask, smoke the fattest bowl of grass, take as many drugs as humanly possible, put the mask on, and see whats on the other side.
Doctors assisted suicide for terminally ill patients should be legal, solves this whole problem.
I've signed a living will. If I am brain dead, the plug will be pulled.
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I too, read through the article, and although it was informative, it really did'nt make a connection with the quality of life in this families tragic saga, 
My own thoughts are much like ovcatto's thoughts, the closer I get to that parting moment, the more I continue to dwell upon it, ponder the thought 
Sometimes, I resent the fact that whatever life we get, there are issues that must always remain exclusively within our control, yet, the government 
Yes, it's a thought provoking subject, some would avoid even broaching the question of death. People like me never stop thinking about it. I guess 
