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I always felt that as a people we're natural dreamers, but that because we're people we're also realistic. In the 80's I used to feel we had gotten to become dreamers again, as was reflected in our arts, with the movies of Spielberg and Lucas and what not, but it seemed that was only a dream of the safe and priveledged...
In the 90's we were back to reality, with drugs and gangs and violence, and by 9/11 all dreams went out the door.
I began thinking..."As great and inspiring as this is, for some reason, I can't feel it anymore"
Instead, I'm distracted by the ads on the side of the page, by the "vimeo" logo, by the technology that's presenting it. Not so much the content. Yeah, I can pull it up in fullscreen mode and turn off the lights, but as soon as it's done, there'll be some ad for viagra or something to competely kill the mood.
And that's pretty much the nature of today.
In the 80's this might of been something I'd see only on PBS and, despite me being an MTV child who felt this was something my parents "force" me to watch, I admit, I got a little fuzzy feeling .. that seemed to overpower the senses I got out of reality by being with my friends partying to Madonna or whatever it was.
Yet I realize, what killed dreams, was that other people did not share in the luxory of having those same dreams, and so, to not be patronizing, to not "shove it in their face how good life is for 'me'", we have to tone down the sentimental sappiness a bit.
People who don't dream, want American Idol. They want to see the "real people" in reality doing something that, may not be so worldy and moving and intense, yet, is something achievable in your backyard, now, in real life, and that's just a function of our human nature is that depending on your situation, you either want a more realistic view of the world, or... you want to see stars falling in the sky.
A millionaire who's got perfect health and is in love and has a home far away from any danger wants to see stars shooting in the sky with moving music and a Speilberg like tingling of the senses, but the person with no job and struggling to even find a date much rather see a comedian talking about idiots on twitter.
I actually am both of these people, simultaneously, to be honest. My life is not perfect, there's things that I was just born with that are not at all safe and sound, yet there's things I have that are pretty good... and I kind of know it, but can't really show it...
But, I always felt that to dream was really the answer to happiness. You can have actual happiness, like true love, security in talent or skill for a lifelong career, health, friends and family...
Or, you can be like a "crazy person" or someone on drugs, who, in their mind, EXPERIENCES life as thought they have these things, and thus feels the same as if it really was real.
Because the philosophical question remains, if it feels real, then it is...
When we die, it doesn't matter whether you actually had love, or money or friends, but that you FELT the way someone does who had that.
Our mind can actually do that. but you gotta dream....
I don't think we can dream today. We're too much in reality because we feel, dreaming distracts us from when the planes come crashing, or the bombs explode...
So much like a policeman or a soldier will not partake in the party because he has to keep his eye open, we as society have all become one giant alert and realistic watchdog....
Much like, a policeman, even after the burglar has been caught, will not simply "stop" being a policeman, society will not stop being alert.. because we're paranoid.
Of terrorists, of alien groups who still have something against us and could possibly form an army to attack us, of ourselves.. of civil war, of opposing viewpoints clustering into dividing groups ...
But all of that, ALL of it... in reality, is equal paranoia on both sides, no different than a boy meeting a girl, but he thinks she won't like him, and she thinks he won't like her, so they both act defensive towards each other, yet, at night, both think of each other....
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nineteenseventy3
I always felt that as a people we're natural dreamers, but that because we're people we're also realistic. In the 80's I used to feel we had gotten to become dreamers again, as was reflected in our arts, with the movies of Spielberg and Lucas and what not, but it seemed that was only a dream of the safe and priveledged...
In the 90's we were back to reality, with drugs and gangs and violence, and by 9/11 all dreams went out the door.
I began thinking..."As great and inspiring as this is, for some reason, I can't feel it anymore"
Instead, I'm distracted by the ads on the side of the page, by the "vimeo" logo, by the technology that's presenting it. Not so much the content. Yeah, I can pull it up in fullscreen mode and turn off the lights, but as soon as it's done, there'll be some ad for viagra or something to competely kill the mood.
And that's pretty much the nature of today.
In the 80's this might of been something I'd see only on PBS and, despite me being an MTV child who felt this was something my parents "force" me to watch, I admit, I got a little fuzzy feeling .. that seemed to overpower the senses I got out of reality by being with my friends partying to Madonna or whatever it was.
Yet I realize, what killed dreams, was that other people did not share in the luxory of having those same dreams, and so, to not be patronizing, to not "shove it in their face how good life is for 'me'", we have to tone down the sentimental sappiness a bit.
People who don't dream, want American Idol. They want to see the "real people" in reality doing something that, may not be so worldy and moving and intense, yet, is something achievable in your backyard, now, in real life, and that's just a function of our human nature is that depending on your situation, you either want a more realistic view of the world, or... you want to see stars falling in the sky.
A millionaire who's got perfect health and is in love and has a home far away from any danger wants to see stars shooting in the sky with moving music and a Speilberg like tingling of the senses, but the person with no job and struggling to even find a date much rather see a comedian talking about idiots on twitter.
I actually am both of these people, simultaneously, to be honest. My life is not perfect, there's things that I was just born with that are not at all safe and sound, yet there's things I have that are pretty good... and I kind of know it, but can't really show it...
But, I always felt that to dream was really the answer to happiness. You can have actual happiness, like true love, security in talent or skill for a lifelong career, health, friends and family...
Or, you can be like a "crazy person" or someone on drugs, who, in their mind, EXPERIENCES life as thought they have these things, and thus feels the same as if it really was real.
Because the philosophical question remains, if it feels real, then it is...
When we die, it doesn't matter whether you actually had love, or money or friends, but that you FELT the way someone does who had that.
Our mind can actually do that. but you gotta dream....
I don't think we can dream today. We're too much in reality because we feel, dreaming distracts us from when the planes come crashing, or the bombs explode...
So much like a policeman or a soldier will not partake in the party because he has to keep his eye open, we as society have all become one giant alert and realistic watchdog....
Much like, a policeman, even after the burglar has been caught, will not simply "stop" being a policeman, society will not stop being alert.. because we're paranoid.
Of terrorists, of alien groups who still have something against us and could possibly form an army to attack us, of ourselves.. of civil war, of opposing viewpoints clustering into dividing groups ...
But all of that, ALL of it... in reality, is equal paranoia on both sides, no different than a boy meeting a girl, but he thinks she won't like him, and she thinks he won't like her, so they both act defensive towards each other, yet, at night, both think of each other....
I consider myself a realist to the point of being cynical of sometimes. However I do realize the value of dreaming.
A dream gives you reason to get out of bed each morning. A dream gives you a reason to work because you will be working toward that dream. A dream is that thing that will fulfill the need to chase something. It doesn't matter the chance of that dream coming to fruition, it gives a reason for life.
Quote:
But, I always felt that to dream was really the answer to happiness. You can have actual happiness, like true love, security in talent or skill for a lifelong career, health, friends and family...
I think that dreaming will enhance this happiness. Say you dreamed of that spouse's love or a lifelong career. Seeing that dream come to pass just makes the dream that much sweeter.
06-16-2012, 10:27 AM
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I wonder if a higher percentage of people in the world really were dreamers and more idealistic in the 1960s/1980s/1990s etc. compared to the 2000s and if that was true or an illusion.
For the state of reality, there is more obvious easier to figure out accurate reflections about it but also other aspects that is much more mysterious, obscure about it, being much more difficult to figure out.
Dreaming/Idealism can encompass variation in types of thinking with some of it being more beneficial, exciting, and good than other types that are less beneficial, less exciting, less good, and not as necessary.
Maybe there is slightly too high of a percentage of people in the world in the 2000s that are lost, not knowing what to dream/be idealistic in, and where to express it. Some of those people can find escapes into what they think is reality, lower their standards too much, and have some distorted perception in the state of reality. Some of those people should try to bring some higher standards into their perception, which includes some added dreaming/idealism that can be good and inspirational for them in their life direction.
There probably is still plenty of people in the 2000s that are idealistic/dreamers and realistic at the same time, with finding balance in that. The percentage of those people might still be too low, so there can be an even higher percentage of people with a similar mindset, for that form of mindset to be encouraged in society and culture more frequently.
I comes down to a balancing act. Too much living in the past is bad. And, too much in the future (through dreaming) can be bad. A certain amount can only be experienced in the present. Yet, dreaming, as an escape from reality sure beats out drugs and other escape mechanisms that seem to be so prevelant today.
...A dream gives you reason to get out of bed each morning. A dream gives you a reason to work because you will be working toward that dream. A dream is that thing that will fulfill the need to chase something. It doesn't matter the chance of that dream coming to fruition, it gives a reason for life.....
It sounds like a life totally wrapped in delusional thinking. Very sad.
That consumption provides the function that imagination used to give, and in turn, confers the sense that life can be better if only you buy the correct product or concept leading to social praise and fulfillment. Witness Apple, Inc., for example. So by the force of marketing departments worldwide, people delude themselves into believing that their arbitrary ideas are merely fantastic idealism and that the only way to belong to a living paradise is to be informed how wonderful life is if you behave within the confines of a living commercial, free from critical thought and dressed up in all the correct logos, brands and rhetorical devices.
The paranoia is there since people have no idea how to navigate the literal minefield that society has become. Do This, Don't Do That as TheGreat Spreadsheet of $ Signs has decreed this is what one must do to avoid lack of money and the substantive loss of status that loss will create if you do not conform to the wise decisions that the Head Accountant has computed up. Really! Rather than sing one's own songs we now have the actors on "American Idol" (Fox) and "The Voice" (NBC) do it for us, and it feels so right having a vote in the outcome because replacing the tangible dream of first-person experience with the fantasy of third-person voyeurism has made the entire business that much easier to manage- and we all know how management dislikes interruption of edict however fashioned and displayed and sold. There are all these cheaply made units that need good homes and they can't be left on the shelf all by themselves now, can they? How cruel!
Yet another reality is that the street gangbanger operation is being replaced by the Big Pharma R&D technician and the gang he hustles for is the humble umbrella corporation, while the pusher is Doc Feelgood and the fence works behind the pharmacy counter at Walgreen's. Wow! Quite radical, indeed! (It's true, by the textbook.) Terrorists are the new Soviets since there must always be another enemy outside the gates to distort the reality of the one's who operate right out of the city center voted on on behalf of the people who will be guided to salvation by those who enforce principles of supply & demand that finance the city center's figureheads. Huh? But you know it really is 'them', over there. You don't? Well, here is a puppet with questionable background that will soothe your fears and exude the feelings of trust and righteous comeuppance that will sate that uncompliant disquiet. Look, they even arranged to be represented by an old guy from a 'racist' state and an airhead beauty pageant winner who pretended to govern some backwoods atrocity act as counter-weight so you can feel happy and not get unctuous about revolt, as the 'good' guy seems to 'win' a pageant that is controlled from before the start until the last electronic chad falls. Haven't I just committed the most vile sin?
This waking stupor is quite real! Dream or delusion, collusion or mere sleepiness: Irrelevant. What are the dreams pursued if they aren't dreams but constructs meant to create order thru an enforced sense of fracture meant to deride, distract and re-align what should be dreamt?
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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I think we like to think in the 60s everyone was full of great dreams about the future, idealistic about everything, believed that we could literally solve everything through a bit of free love, pot and what not, but in reality most people were probably as conventional and 'realist' as today. They just went about the business of living: paying bills, dating, marrying, having children, going on vacations to Florida, watching the Ed Sullivan show.etc. I do, however, think there was a 'dreamy' streak throughout the 60s and 70s, as reflected in the pop culture. The sky was no longer the limit, literally: billions watched enthralled as we made it to the Moon - honestly, I don't think ANY event has united humanity since then. The idea of going to Mars now seems like an excessively wasteful undertaking - again a distant dream. We're increasingly cynical about the world and other people, like others have said we just consume, and our thinking is no more critical than it was in the past. We allow 'intellectuals' to think for us, and we vote for whatever is popular. Now and then we still may dream, but for many of us they will still remain just dreams having no actual bearing on the reality we live in.
That consumption provides the function that imagination used to give, and in turn, confers the sense that life can be better if only you buy the correct product or concept leading to social praise and fulfillment. Witness Apple, Inc., for example. So by the force of marketing departments worldwide, people delude themselves into believing that their arbitrary ideas are merely fantastic idealism and that the only way to belong to a living paradise is to be informed how wonderful life is if you behave within the confines of a living commercial, free from critical thought and dressed up in all the correct logos, brands and rhetorical devices.
The paranoia is there since people have no idea how to navigate the literal minefield that society has become. Do This, Don't Do That as TheGreat Spreadsheet of $ Signs has decreed this is what one must do to avoid lack of money and the substantive loss of status that loss will create if you do not conform to the wise decisions that the Head Accountant has computed up. Really! Rather than sing one's own songs we now have the actors on "American Idol" (Fox) and "The Voice" (NBC) do it for us, and it feels so right having a vote in the outcome because replacing the tangible dream of first-person experience with the fantasy of third-person voyeurism has made the entire business that much easier to manage- and we all know how management dislikes interruption of edict however fashioned and displayed and sold. There are all these cheaply made units that need good homes and they can't be left on the shelf all by themselves now, can they? How cruel!
Yet another reality is that the street gangbanger operation is being replaced by the Big Pharma R&D technician and the gang he hustles for is the humble umbrella corporation, while the pusher is Doc Feelgood and the fence works behind the pharmacy counter at Walgreen's. Wow! Quite radical, indeed! (It's true, by the textbook.) Terrorists are the new Soviets since there must always be another enemy outside the gates to distort the reality of the one's who operate right out of the city center voted on on behalf of the people who will be guided to salvation by those who enforce principles of supply & demand that finance the city center's figureheads. Huh? But you know it really is 'them', over there. You don't? Well, here is a puppet with questionable background that will soothe your fears and exude the feelings of trust and righteous comeuppance that will sate that uncompliant disquiet. Look, they even arranged to be represented by an old guy from a 'racist' state and an airhead beauty pageant winner who pretended to govern some backwoods atrocity act as counter-weight so you can feel happy and not get unctuous about revolt, as the 'good' guy seems to 'win' a pageant that is controlled from before the start until the last electronic chad falls. Haven't I just committed the most vile sin?
This waking stupor is quite real! Dream or delusion, collusion or mere sleepiness: Irrelevant. What are the dreams pursued if they aren't dreams but constructs meant to create order thru an enforced sense of fracture meant to deride, distract and re-align what should be dreamt?
Well, what a dream it is!
That's true, people are more consumers today than creators, but that's cause, all the good stuff has been created already!!!
think about it. Music... why was madonna and prince so catchy, to where, even the "cool kids" of our day liked it??
Because, catchy songs were easy to make. It's like, as if, there IS a limit on how many catchy songs you can really make...???
I mean, there is only 8 notes in the major scale.. it's all in the numbers.
I think our society used to dream because, it's like when you first go to Vegas you get 'beginners luck'.. it's happened to me. I won $1000 very first Vegas trip. Last 8 trips, I'm down almost all of it.. but, still "broke even" if I add up the numbers.
However, looking only at the numbers, would seem I "broke even". But, if FEELS like I'm losing more because, I won only (1) trip, but lost smaller amounts over a lot of trips, so I have a "losing feeling" in me.
And THAT is really what was the important thing... But it's like.. having a gambler's mentality is knowing your bankroll. Play what you can afford.. Just gotta think of it different......
I WAS the greatest dreamer on earth. I dreamed of writing song that could save the world- I dreamed of painting pictures that could move the spirit to the highest realm...I dreamed constantly- then one day I lost faith. Not in myself- but in the world..and now I have no dream- since that happened my life has been a quiet little hell and it feels like I have given up and am patiently waiting for this life to come to an end....It's as if evil finally won...as if I ran out of gas and time,
If this happened to me the greatest of dreamers- maybe it happened to millions like me all at once- ONCE THE DREAMER IS GONE...the world slowly fades and the end comes....for everybody- Just wish that someone would come along and say to us dreamers................we love you and need you - please dream again.....that's all...just to be appreciated instead of disposed of.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach
I WAS the greatest dreamer on earth. I dreamed of writing song that could save the world- I dreamed of painting pictures that could move the spirit to the highest realm...I dreamed constantly- then one day I lost faith. Not in myself- but in the world..and now I have no dream- since that happened my life has been a quiet little hell and it feels like I have given up and am patiently waiting for this life to come to an end....It's as if evil finally won...as if I ran out of gas and time,
If this happened to me the greatest of dreamers- maybe it happened to millions like me all at once- ONCE THE DREAMER IS GONE...the world slowly fades and the end comes....for everybody- Just wish that someone would come along and say to us dreamers................we love you and need you - please dream again.....that's all...just to be appreciated instead of disposed of.
I think I've experienced something very similar. Like at one point I wanted to be famous, then I realised fame wasn't worth it, and celeb worship is so shallow and meaningless...I also thought 'in the end, what's the point?' What's the point of even trying to make the world a better place if we're basically programmed to self-destruct?
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