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Living in New York in the late 80 & 90s I had numerous colleagues and friends who were openly homosexual. They all knew about AIDS. All swore to each other to have only safe sex. They all went to clubs, bathhouses, dark rooms, Fire Island, White Party, Beige Party, South Beach, you name it. They all took drugs, mixed alcohol with poppers, Viagra with cocaine, had 24, 48, even 72 hour parties. Judgment gets blurry when partying that long. Sexual partners were often not recognized even a day after encounters. My wife is a doctor and she was increasingly busy with persistent sexual diseases amongst the homosexual community. Penicillin resistant syphilis, one strain of gonorrhea followed by the next one, crabs, pubic lice, herpes, weird fevers, constant bowel problems, and above all, HIV infections done intentionally.
It's when the infamous 'gift giver parties' started. Getting over the worries to get it by simply getting it was becoming hip and cool amongst gays. Unprotected sex with a full blown AIDS carrier to become part of the club, having the medical cocktails in the bathroom for everyone to see. Bragging that the viral load would be 'undetectable' so a newbie who would insist to use condoms would soften to the desired bareback approach. Here were smart, educated, cheerful young men squandering away their lives and ruining it for anybody gay + wanting to have a future. Is it within the nature of homosexuality that the future of society matters less? The lack of offsprings? The identification of oneself foremost based on a sexual practice? Narcissism? The amount of sexual partners per year a good looking gay doctor had was mind boggling. Only to be topped off by the next years number. A straight man even with his looks and profession would not have as many female partners like he had in a year in a lifetime. The doctor was HIV positive and knowingly infected hundreds--all of them thought he would be responsible because of his medical degree. Yes, he also had sex with his female admirers--but only when cocaine was involved, he joked.
The dinner table debates about society & homosexuality were always high flying and quoting political ideals, gay rights, liberty, and ethics. Yet the after party happened under exclusions of the hetero couples who went home or simply for a drink. The places like 'Manhole' and 'Hellfire' were for male on male carnal pleasure without any rules, no names, no job titles. In darkness, with lots of lube. And no safety precautions.
Each and everyone of the men I knew from back then is dead. All before they turned 50. Does it affect heterosexuals? O yes it does! These dead men had parents, some had children, all had colleagues, friends, customers, neighbors, students, patients. They died before their time, their families followed them through their depressions, drug addictions, medical problems and burials.
AIDS is a retro virus. It adapts like the flu. One can carry one, two, three different strains from different sexual partners. The strains merge and becoem something new at one point. There will be no public warnings given when it learns to fly with a sneeze, learns to stay alive in a drop of spit on a glass, or speck of urine on a toilet seat. Or when it starts multiplying in a sweaty palm as it does in the Langerhanss cells of a rectum.
I have not lived in South Africa and don't know how the virus spreads there amongst heterosexuals. Or been in a US prison to figure out what goes on there. But nobody can lecture me about what happened and happens again in the gay metropoles of the USA.
Rampant sexual activities without restrictions btw high numbers of drug abusing people with money and no care is like a human petri dish: Nothing good comes out of it but super viruses and drug-resistant bacteria. Larry Kramer and the GMHC knew about it but they couldn't stop it either. New bombs are ticking and the blame will be deflected again away from sexual responsibility to that someone in the Kongo ate once an infected monkey.
Your post is incredibly powerful.
It's super clear that highly irresponsible gay behavior existed -- "gift giver parties" is truly beyond my comprehension -- to a degree I never before heard of and could never have imagined. It's a depiction of selfishness on an unfathomable scale.
It is entirely reasonable to believe that some of these "gifts" (and/or the like) eventually were passed onto some very unfortunate and unknowing and innocent heterosexuals.
I'm curious to know if you are aware of any similar irresponsible behavior that is taking place today?
It's super clear that highly irresponsible gay behavior existed -- "gift giver parties" is truly beyond my comprehension -- to a degree I never before heard of and could never have imagined. It's a depiction of selfishness on an unfathomable scale.
It is entirely reasonable to believe that some of these "gifts" (and/or the like) eventually were passed onto some very unfortunate and unknowing and innocent heterosexuals.
I'm curious to know if you are aware of any similar irresponsible behavior that is taking place today?
Bug Chasers. It does exist. People have been known to actually knowingly seek HIV infection, hence my mentioning earlier of excluding people who knowingly infect themselves.
It doesn't just happen in gay couples. It has happened in heterosexual ones where one member wants to "go through it with their partner" and it's in part fed by the idea that since HIV is now treatable,
it's no big deal .
And then their are the AIDS denialists who don't believe that AIDS is real they really have AIDS. Look up Christine Maggiore who refused treatment for herself and her daughter, which led to both of their deaths
Living in New York in the late 80 & 90s I had numerous colleagues and friends who were openly homosexual. They all knew about AIDS. All swore to each other to have only safe sex. They all went to clubs, bathhouses, dark rooms, Fire Island, White Party, Beige Party, South Beach, you name it. They all took drugs, mixed alcohol with poppers, Viagra with cocaine, had 24, 48, even 72 hour parties. Judgment gets blurry when partying that long. Sexual partners were often not recognized even a day after encounters. My wife is a doctor and she was increasingly busy with persistent sexual diseases amongst the homosexual community. Penicillin resistant syphilis, one strain of gonorrhea followed by the next one, crabs, pubic lice, herpes, weird fevers, constant bowel problems, and above all, HIV infections done intentionally.
It's when the infamous 'gift giver parties' started. Getting over the worries to get it by simply getting it was becoming hip and cool amongst gays. Unprotected sex with a full blown AIDS carrier to become part of the club, having the medical cocktails in the bathroom for everyone to see. Bragging that the viral load would be 'undetectable' so a newbie who would insist to use condoms would soften to the desired bareback approach. Here were smart, educated, cheerful young men squandering away their lives and ruining it for anybody gay + wanting to have a future. Is it within the nature of homosexuality that the future of society matters less? The lack of offsprings? The identification of oneself foremost based on a sexual practice? Narcissism? The amount of sexual partners per year a good looking gay doctor had was mind boggling. Only to be topped off by the next years number. A straight man even with his looks and profession would not have as many female partners like he had in a year in a lifetime. The doctor was HIV positive and knowingly infected hundreds--all of them thought he would be responsible because of his medical degree. Yes, he also had sex with his female admirers--but only when cocaine was involved, he joked.
The dinner table debates about society & homosexuality were always high flying and quoting political ideals, gay rights, liberty, and ethics. Yet the after party happened under exclusions of the hetero couples who went home or simply for a drink. The places like 'Manhole' and 'Hellfire' were for male on male carnal pleasure without any rules, no names, no job titles. In darkness, with lots of lube. And no safety precautions.
Each and everyone of the men I knew from back then is dead. All before they turned 50. Does it affect heterosexuals? O yes it does! These dead men had parents, some had children, all had colleagues, friends, customers, neighbors, students, patients. They died before their time, their families followed them through their depressions, drug addictions, medical problems and burials.
AIDS is a retro virus. It adapts like the flu. One can carry one, two, three different strains from different sexual partners. The strains merge and becoem something new at one point. There will be no public warnings given when it learns to fly with a sneeze, learns to stay alive in a drop of spit on a glass, or speck of urine on a toilet seat. Or when it starts multiplying in a sweaty palm as it does in the Langerhanss cells of a rectum.
I have not lived in South Africa and don't know how the virus spreads there amongst heterosexuals. Or been in a US prison to figure out what goes on there. But nobody can lecture me about what happened and happens again in the gay metropoles of the USA.
Rampant sexual activities without restrictions btw high numbers of drug abusing people with money and no care is like a human petri dish: Nothing good comes out of it but super viruses and drug-resistant bacteria. Larry Kramer and the GMHC knew about it but they couldn't stop it either. New bombs are ticking and the blame will be deflected again away from sexual responsibility to that someone in the Kongo ate once an infected monkey.
This has to be one of the best reads thus far on CD! I only wish to feel comfortable enlightening others with said information as factual. I do not doubt your information true however, the wool had been pulled over our eyes on many accords in the past.
I will say again and again-
just because I do not understand or agree with homosexuality doesn't make it wrong!
Bug Chasers. It does exist. People have been known to actually knowingly seek HIV infection, hence my mentioning earlier of excluding people who knowingly infect themselves.
It doesn't just happen in gay couples. It has happened in heterosexual ones where one member wants to "go through it with their partner" and it's in part fed by the idea that since HIV is now treatable,
it's no big deal .
And then their are the AIDS denialists who don't believe that AIDS is real they really have AIDS. Look up Christine Maggiore who refused treatment for herself and her daughter, which led to both of their deaths
I would not consider any such "seekers" to be at all rational. I believe such action represents a severe mental imbalance, at best. If not a death wish, they certainly have an extreme pain wish.
It doesn't make any sense to me; the equation simply does not close in my mind. If we were discussing a criminal case, I would say that you can't apply logic or rational thought to the action of a fruitcake who commits crimes or atrocities for reasons (motive) that make no sense whatsoever to anyone but them.
There are things in life and actions undertaken by others that I will never understand other than to say that they are not rational.
I would not consider any such "seekers" to be at all rational. I believe such action represents a severe mental imbalance, at best. If not a death wish, they certainly have an extreme pain wish.
It doesn't make any sense to me; the equation simply does not close in my mind. If we were discussing a criminal case, I would say that you can't apply logic or rational thought to the action of a fruitcake who commits crimes or atrocities for reasons (motive) that make no sense whatsoever to anyone but them.
There are things in life and actions undertaken by others that I will never understand other than to say that they are not rational.
What is the most difficult thing for me to understand is how the one who is HIV positive can knowingly do this to someone else. I've been remarried fo 20 years to a wonderful HIV neg man and I can't even comprehend participating in somthing that could knowingly infect him. It would kill me to know I did that
This has to be one of the best reads thus far on CD! I only wish to feel comfortable enlightening others with said information as factual. I do not doubt your information true however, the wool had been pulled over our eyes on many accords in the past.
I will say again and again-
just because I do not understand or agree with homosexuality doesn't make it wrong!
I agree with your assessment on the quality of the post you complimented.
For me, this thread has proved to be incredibly enlightening and informative. The quality of some posts is absolutely nothing but top-shelf material, such of which have been supplied by young gay men who desired to try and illuminate why things have taken place and/or why things are the way they are. Their contributions are something special that I really appreciate.
If you haven't read through the entire thread, I suggest you do so. In post #71, I responded to what I consider to be the best post I have ever read on city-data.
What is the most difficult thing for me to understand is how the one who is HIV positive can knowingly do this to someone else. I've been remarried fo 20 years to a wonderful HIV neg man and I can't even comprehend participating in somthing that could knowingly infect him. It would kill me to know I did that
What befell you was a true tragedy. It's great to know that you have been able to find happiness once again with a wonderful man who is obviously very understanding.
I think that most people understand that a truly caring spouse, such as yourself, would do everything within reason to ensure that their new partner does not catch HIV. I equate always putting the care and well-being of another person first (before yourself) to represent true love.
As regards people who do not know how you, as a heterosexual, came to be infected with HIV and make quick and false assumptions that it must have been due to "bad" behavior on your part, you need to recognize that they are significantly reasoning challenged, because they form premises from their assumptions (instead of facts) upon which they draw invalid conclusions. Doing so represents a major reasoning error. Unfortunately, it is an affliction that a huge number of Americans carry around with them.
For what it is worth, I don't suffer fools well either. Do your best to ignore those idiots, for they know not what they do.
That was a quote from a self righteous character on Designing Women who took exception with Julia Sugarbaker and her views on HIV/AIDs. JS saw HIV/AIDS for what it was, a plague spreading among human beings. The character far as she was concerned held the (then too widely held) view that HIV/AIDs was some sort of nasty woman's or man's disease that decent persons did not contract. As such it was God's vengeance and the disease was affecting those chosen because of their immoral lives.
One politician recently put it another way; if HIV/AIDS had affected White/European straight community in the USA first there would have been a vastly different response on all levels was his reasoning.
This episode of DW is from back in the 1980's and was ground breaking for taking on what was then a very hot button issue. However the attitude by one character existed then and still exists. Gays are immoral persons and are getting what is coming to them if/when they contact HIV.
I think I saw that episode. Is this the one when the guy dying of AIDs asks them to plan his funeral?
I found that attitude disturbing because it was illogical and stupid: A frigging VIRUS does not discriminate who its host will be. It has no perception of human societal divisions. It. Is. A. VIRUS.
I believe the book, And The Band Played On, should be required reading (Maybe in school--you can't require adults to read anything, though I sometimes wish that were the case.) This was history made in our time, and the lessons learned from the mistakes made because of prejudice should be drilled into the heads of every American.
I live in NYC the mecca of American HIV/AIDS virus besides San Francisco. In the eighties HIV started killing off gay men, intravenous drug users from heroin and prostitutes. These three groups were dying at an alarming rate because their was no medication to control the disease besides experimental cancer drug AZT. By the end of the decade in my city plenty of gay men died, drug users died and a good portion of sex workers died. In the 90s in NYC HIV/Aids was no longer a gay issue and has infiltrated the heterosexual population regardless of race and class. I even heard a story of a family friend of a friend who was married but a very handsome Latino man, a very good looking man and women liked him regardless if he was married. Story short he kept on sleeping around with so much women and some how he picked up the HIV and gave it to his wife who died some years back. I even knew of another woman I used to talk to, she real hot, but she was with her boyfriend who caught HIV, and she tried to commit suicide on certain occasions, strangely she never developed any symptoms in her blood, but her boyfriend continues to mess around with women in the area, and this was nearly a decade ago. From what I remember that HIV is not so much associated with gays but it has become increasingly being associated with the African American population especially amongst black women who are more likely to catch the virus than white or Hispanic women.
Just as an FYI--The book I mention above begins with "They came from all over the world...", describing the Tall Ships coming into New York Harbor in 1976 for the country's bicentennial celebration.
Looking back, researchers realized that after that summer, a number of young, gay men in New York--many of whom had vacationed near one another on Fire Island--began to die of a pneumonia that their immune systems should have been able to toss off with no symptoms, and other diseases that only showed up in people with compromised immune systems or that no one could immediately identify because they aren't diseases that normally kill humans. But they trace it back to that summer in the city, when the ships came to New York from all over the world.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 07-16-2014 at 08:53 PM..
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