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Don't know which black NY women you are hearing. That very nasal old Jewish sound is actually archaic and dying in NYC. More in Long Island, and that is only maybe.
I know it's dying. What is your point? But it doesn't mean it hasn't existed. I still can't tell the difference between Black New Yorkers and White New Yorkers in voice unless I hear differences in slang.
The nasal thing wasn't even a sound that only Jews had. I heard Italian women with that same sound, too.
I have a black friend who's mother owns her own insurance agency. She has people of all races working in her office but won't hire anyone who has an obvious ethnic inflection to their voice. Her motto is that people shouldn't be able to determine your race when they talk to you on the phone. My friend told me her mom doesn't want potential customers being turned off if the rep they're dealing with sounds a "certain" way.
So if someone like me for instance who is Swedish, but lived here in the USA for 14 years, if I applied for a position at her insurance company, and she heard on my voice I had a slight Swedish/European accent, would I not get the job?
I know it's dying. What is your point? But it doesn't mean it hasn't existed. I still can't tell the difference between Black New Yorkers and White New Yorkers in voice unless I hear differences in slang.
The nasal thing wasn't even a sound that only Jews had. I heard Italian women with that same sound, too.
I assume when you say "black" you mean African American. Indeed the fact that you limit black NY accents and tone to that of AAs suggests that either you aren't a NYer or you left long ago. At least 40% of black NY is now Caribbean or African born. Black NYC is not what it was 40 years ago!
That nasal Jewish/Italian accent has NEVER been a feature of NYC African American English. Why would it be when black NYers have ALWAYS lived segregated from white NYers? So why would blacks immigrating from the South, the Caribbean or Africa pick up those "Ellis Island" accents?
Blacks do not speak through their noses, that being a key characteristic of white speech, becoming exaggerated among a certain generation of Jewish/Italian women.
Please don't tell me that you think that Denzil Washington sounds "white". He doesn't speak in vernacular. But he has a definite fullness in his tone which suggests that he isn't a white man.
Black men, regardless of accent, tend to have deeper and fuller tones than do white men, whose voices have a higher pitch and thinner tone. I suggest that you search for a black comedian mimicking white voices to get the differences.
So if someone like me for instance who is Swedish, but lived here in the USA for 14 years, if I applied for a position at her insurance company, and she heard on my voice I had a slight Swedish/European accent, would I not get the job?
No, but neither would most US born blacks, including those with advanced degrees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool
I don't know what city you're from. When I'm NYC everyone sounds nasally, even Blacks. I can't hear the difference between a Jewish woman and a Black woman in NYC unless I hear the word "tuchas"
Please help me here. Which part of NYC do you live, and what year did you leave because that Yiddish inflected English is DEAD, except I nursing homes. Even Jews no longer speak like that.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 11-01-2014 at 11:45 AM..
Reason: Merge
yes. Think about it. Distinctive races have thousands of years of in-group breeding. By the same token, I would think that mixed race folks have no racial trace in their voice.
Mixed race people speak like those around them. Puerto Ricans are mixed race and a whole bunch of them sound EXACTLY like a black American.
Indeed the nasality of white American speech isn't a feature in standard British English. In terms of sound (without regard to accent) I will put US/Canadian white men at one end, British white men in the middle, and US black men at the other end. This is why it is harder to distinguish differences in tone between UK born blacks and whites vs. those born in the USA. Linguists can discuss the origins of the very nasal white North American speech.
I don't know what city you're from. When I'm NYC everyone sounds nasally, even Blacks. I can't hear the difference between a Jewish woman and a Black woman in NYC unless I hear the word "tuchas"
In Texas, urban blacks either sound "neutral" or something similar to Midwestern blacks like those in St. Louis. It's harder to tell with whites here because so many are from other parts of the country.
I assume when you say "black" you mean African American. Indeed the fact that you limit black NY accents and tone to that of AAs suggests that either you aren't a NYer or you left long ago. At least 40% of black NY is now Caribbean or African born. Black NYC is not what it was 40 years ago!
That nasal Jewish/Italian accent has NEVER been a feature of NYC African American English. Why would it be when black NYers have ALWAYS lived segregated from white NYers? So why would blacks immigrating from the South, the Caribbean or Africa pick up those "Ellis Island" accents?
Blacks do not speak through their noses, that being a key characteristic of white speech, becoming exaggerated among a certain generation of Jewish/Italian women.
Please don't tell me that you think that Denzil Washington sounds "white". He doesn't speak in vernacular. But he has a definite fullness in his tone which suggests that he isn't a white man.
Black men, regardless of accent, tend to have deeper and fuller tones than do white men, whose voices have a higher pitch and thinner tone. I suggest that you search for a black comedian mimicking white voices to get the differences.
I'm not exactly sure what you are wanting to accomplish with this post. I'm not from NY and maybe this is why all NYers sound the same to me. Call it nasally, call it New York, call it whatever. You keep harping on nasal sounding accents and all I am talking about is how Black New Yorkers (be it Caribbean or African) have the same accent as White New Yorkers. The segregation in NY was never to the same degree it was in a city like Chicago, where Blacks and Whites sound completely different. When I watched Do the Right Thing, Spike Lee and John Turturro sounded the same and in my opinion they still do.
When I hear Jadakiss or Styles P or Lil Kim, they have standard New York accents. Maybe you hear something consistent in all Black voices compared to White voices but I don't. I don't think "Denzil" Washington sounds White because there is no such thing as a White voice or a Black voice, as nobody in this thread has actually proven.
What the hell is "fuller" and "deeper" about Jay-Z's voice?? Or Spike Lee's for that matter?
Last edited by EddieOlSkool; 11-03-2014 at 04:27 PM..
Mixed race people speak like those around them. Puerto Ricans are mixed race and a whole bunch of them sound EXACTLY like a black American.
Indeed the nasality of white American speech isn't a feature in standard British English. In terms of sound (without regard to accent) I will put US/Canadian white men at one end, British white men in the middle, and US black men at the other end. This is why it is harder to distinguish differences in tone between UK born blacks and whites vs. those born in the USA. Linguists can discuss the origins of the very nasal white North American speech.
No, but neither would most US born blacks, including those with advanced degrees.
Please help me here. Which part of NYC do you live, and what year did you leave because that Yiddish inflected English is DEAD, except I nursing homes. Even Jews no longer speak like that.
Yiddish inflected? NY English doesn't have to be Yiddish inflected and I never it was. New York English is primarily British and Dutch in its pronunciation.
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