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Old 01-07-2015, 04:21 PM
 
Location: usa
1,001 posts, read 1,095,973 times
Reputation: 815

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So what exactly are you hoping to achieve by using this method?

Essentially you are saying: I'm not going to educate you on how to prevent pregnancy nor am I going to help you and your child out when you get pregnant before you are ready to have a child, but I'm going to force you to have a child.

Adoption: Let's be honest, unless it's a white baby, very few want to adopt the child. Foster care/group homes are a mess here not to mention you're also against funding these things because it also falls under welfare.

Please explain why this is the best, most effective method.

Last edited by Oldhag1; 01-07-2015 at 05:19 PM..
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Old 01-07-2015, 05:18 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,126 posts, read 16,167,528 times
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This topic can discussed BUT only if it is DEBATED in a civil, respectful manner. All posts must stay on topic. Any post that brings up partisan politics will automatically be deleted. Short 1-2 sentence statements will be deleted as all posts are expected to be well thought out points and counterpoints. Religion may only be referred to and if it is the primary focus of a post, such a post will be deleted. Do not post quotes, videos, or links unless you summarize it, explain how it supports your point, and it is used as an example instead of being the focus of your post.

Keep in mind Great Debates is a style based forum and moderation is primarily based whether posts follow the unique guidelines associated with this fora. Please do not message me accusing me of deleting your posts because I disagree with your view. You are welcome to your view as long as you stay within the Great Debates parameters. I will close this thread if it becomes an issue.

As always, flaming and/or insulting posts can result in an infraction.

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Old 01-07-2015, 06:05 PM
 
Location: california
7,321 posts, read 6,929,454 times
Reputation: 9258
When people got in trouble it was usually due to poor habits and bad behavior. and these things had to be addressed before they receive help IN the old days.
When you blanket provide support of the derelict, your encouraging the bad behavior .
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Old 01-07-2015, 06:57 PM
 
5,252 posts, read 4,678,784 times
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Welfare is one of those plans by government that began as a true caring factor, abortion is seen by some as a possible solution to the growth of that plan. ADC, aid to dependent children was the forerunner to TANF, another attempt to coral the growth of long term handouts by the feds. The fact that a baby could be a young women's ticket to independence from her parents, and by no small measure, independent of a man, means we need to have a different set of incentives for those who have children they can't support.

Religion plays a huge role in the abortion debate, well meaning people see it as an abomination of their life principles and in that vein do what they can to prevent it. Other well meaning folks simply see abortion as a tool to fix things of a moral nature (people taking government money) that begets another moral dilemma.

Freedom, it's something most of America has talked up quite a bit, but, and this is a major departure from most views of freedom, we'd really prefer that everybody be free to do only those things we agree with. Choice, that fearful word, that word that connotes freedom, has become something of a battle cry in the land of the free. There are no easy answers to our social dilemmas, but freedom of choice seems to be a fundamental thing we all recognize as one of the pillars of a free society.
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Old 01-07-2015, 11:24 PM
 
45,582 posts, read 27,203,264 times
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I don't think it's a matter of achieving anything. I want people to life their lives and not burden others because of bad decisions and lack of self control. That shouldn't be too much to ask.

I believe most charity should come via private means. Limited government help is fine, but it should not enable poor decision making.

Adoption is a crapshoot. Some situations are positive... some are negative.

The two parent family with kids in place is the building block of the culture. There are no good substitutes.
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Old 01-08-2015, 07:32 AM
 
Location: usa
1,001 posts, read 1,095,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
I don't think it's a matter of achieving anything. I want people to life their lives and not burden others because of bad decisions and lack of self control.
Not knowing the full picture leads to bad decisions. Why not inform teens about various forms of birth control? That way if they have a "lack of self control" and have sex before marriage (like 97% of the us population)

4 Cool Statistics About Abstinence in the USA | WaitingTillMarriage.org

at least a baby won't be produced.

after all, knowing about birth control helps reduce abortion rates

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1...ntrol-st-louis
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Old 01-08-2015, 08:42 AM
 
893 posts, read 886,268 times
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There is zero logic that says one can't be against killing unborn babies and FOR requiring personal responsibility from our citizens.

And......

I DO NOT KNOW ONE SINGLE PERSON WHO IS NOT IN FAVOR OF HELPING THOSE WHO CANNOT. I REPEAT, CANNOT HELP THEMSELVES.
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Old 01-08-2015, 09:10 AM
 
45,582 posts, read 27,203,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stellastar2345 View Post
Not knowing the full picture leads to bad decisions. Why not inform teens about various forms of birth control? That way if they have a "lack of self control" and have sex before marriage (like 97% of the us population)

4 Cool Statistics About Abstinence in the USA | WaitingTillMarriage.org

at least a baby won't be produced.

after all, knowing about birth control helps reduce abortion rates

New England Journal of Medicine Study on Birth Control in St. Louis | The New Republic
Parents should be informing their kids about the risks of pre-marital sex. If they want to include physical birth control, that's up to the individual family.

Physically, abstinence works 100% - not so for birth control. But for me, including the risks of having a baby before financial and situational readiness can redirect one's life plans for decades. This should be explained.

There is a spiritual connection to sex also. You are connecting to someone spiritually when you have sex. Without a commitment of marriage - this could cause issues because there is a spiritual attachment without a real commitment.
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Old 01-09-2015, 12:44 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,483,414 times
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Most of the people I personally know who are for abstinent only grew up as wild young people during the sexual revolution and became born again Christians. They feel guilty for their past behavior and want to shelter their children. The problem is going from one extreme to another is usually just as bad. I know lots of people in bad marriages because they were pressured to not live with the other person beforehand and have no clue what they're getting in to.

Personally I dislike abortion and I never think it's the ideal outcome. But there are pregnant women who are in very tough positions with no good outcome. You also have some women who just don't care, and is the child better off being brought into a life of hell?

I prefer being pro adoption to banning abortion.
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Old 01-09-2015, 01:44 PM
 
36,539 posts, read 30,879,493 times
Reputation: 32816
Quote:
Originally Posted by stellastar2345 View Post
So what exactly are you hoping to achieve by using this method?

Essentially you are saying: I'm not going to educate you on how to prevent pregnancy nor am I going to help you and your child out when you get pregnant before you are ready to have a child, but I'm going to force you to have a child.

Adoption: Let's be honest, unless it's a white baby, very few want to adopt the child. Foster care/group homes are a mess here not to mention you're also against funding these things because it also falls under welfare.

Please explain why this is the best, most effective method.
I can not explain why it is the best and most effective method because I do not believe it is. It seem no one can explain how these opposing lines of thinking can be effective. Reading some responses posted here and the general vibe from those who are of that mindset it appears these folks just need to sit in judgment of others. I do not know if it is because they feel superior because they personally, nor anyone close to them has ever been in such a situation or they just don't want any of their tax dollars going to those they deem derelicts be it free bc, abortions, healthcare or welfare.

Many people view pre-marital sex and abortion morally wrong due to religious beliefs but one would think such a person would also be compassionate and support assistance to the "sinners", hate the sin love the sinner.

I would like to see a reduction in the need for welfare and government health care myself but the best way to achieve this is through sex education, general education, available birth control, including abortion, if it comes to that. I would even support government funded permanent sterilization.
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