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Location: MA/ME (the way life should not be / the way it should be)
1,266 posts, read 1,388,809 times
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not being racist, but wouldnt they look black to some degree, white person has a child with a black person, the darker skintone would take over, taking many generations to wash out to the point of being able to "pass" as a pureblood white.
In the past you've mentioned your daughter is uncomfortable being identified as black. I find that a bit odd since she is part black. In another thread you said your daughter felt odd about being asked to speak to some young African American women because the person thought she would identify better. I would think being proud of your heritage is accepting all parts of yourself and it does seem like based on you post there is an issue there.
The reality is also people only look at the surface. Many people have called my husband Italian, Greek, even white but he understand that it's because of what they see on the surface.
Nope - you can keep saying it all you want but it won't make it fact. What I have said REPEATEDLY is that my daughter is uncomfortable with people trying to categorize her as ONLY African American or "black." She has no problem whatsoever with the fact that she is HALF African American, but she is also half European American (actually she's about 1/8 Cherokee, 3/8ths African American, and 1/2 northern European if you really want to break it down that far but basically she identifies as 1/2 African American and 1/2 "white").
I told the story about her priest asking her to go speak to a group of African American women from an African American church as part of an interchurch community thing. This alarmed her - not because she is half black, but because this was in a city that has a very large African American community, in the south, and these communities are known for their very active - and yes, frankly - loud and boisterous - church services. This is not at all the type of community my daughter grew up in (she is Roman Catholic - very traditional Roman Catholic as a matter of fact - and yes, I know there are some African Americans who are also Roman Catholic but that's not my point). Also - she had literally never spoken to a group of people formally before.
Her priest thought that as a "black woman" she would identify better with the "black women" that he wanted her to speak to. He chose her as a representative of their church BECAUSE she was "black." But the ironic thing was - someone with a more protestant, or maybe a baptist upbringing would have been just as effective, probably.
She called me afterwards and said, "Mom, this is the truth. While Father _____ was there and introducing me, everyone was very sedate and quiet. They were all dressed to the nines in dresses, or suits, high heels, and a lot of hats. I was dressed in capris, sandals and a peasant top. I already felt very underdressed for the occasion, and nervous and awkward because I'm not used to speaking in public. The minute Father ______ left, the room came alive. They were very friendly, very outgoing - and very loud. Everything I said got a big round of Amen, Amen, sister! It made speaking to them a lot easier in a way because they were so outgoing - but it was nothing like the church environment I am used to!"
I think it was more an eye opening experience for my daughter than it was for the women she was speaking to. She did enjoy the evening, but think about it - anyone used to a very different church environment would have felt a bit awkward.
Please keep in mind that she grew up with an African American grandmother and aunts and cousins in her life. It's not like African Americans are strange to her, or a group she feels awkward around. It's not that she is at all ashamed of any part of her ancestry - in fact, she's very happy that she is biracial - she likes herself, likes her heritage, likes her family. But she didn't know how to tell her priest - who told her specifically that he thought she'd be great to go talk to these women BECAUSE she is "black like they are," - that skin tone doesn't make someone either "black or white" or automatically accepted or comfortable around everyone who has brown skin.
It also doesn't assure that everyone with brown skin is going to accept HER either - just pointing that out.
Looks like some people in this thread are clearly annoyed that they or their children would be perceived as black. I am in serious relationship with a white woman. If she talked like some of you talked I would up and leave, no questions asked.
Our children will be raised and reared as African-American children. That doesn't mean that they will not and should not have an affinity, love, appreciation, and knowledge of the other half of their family. It makes them who they are. As a father, they will face the same challenges their older brother (who has a black mother) will face and to prepare them for anything otherwise will be a major disservice to them. For the record, my son is extremely light skinned. I am a dark caramel. His mother darker than I. Yet, people who do not know his background assume that my partner is his mother. The net effect is that I am already aware of how my future mixed children will be perceived, all things being equal.
If I am right, (and I think I will be, since it worked for me), my children will appreciate all people. First and foremost themselves and what made them who they are. Establishing their awareness for how they may be perceived and giving them the tools to address that ignorance proactively is the best thing that I can do for them.
Part of that is raising them as AA.
Well, if I was dating a black man who insisted that our biracial children be raised to consider themselves "black" or "African American," I'd would up and leave too. So I guess for a wide variety of reasons, we will never date or have children together and we're both probably very grateful for that!
Biracial kids are just that - biracial. Why try to insist that they identify with only half of their heritage? By their parents or anyone else?
I taught my kids early on that if a form tried to force them to choose just one race, then either leave that part blank or check off both "African American" and "White" and to hell with what the Form Meister tries to insist on. Actually for the first few years of their schooling, many forms DID ask specifically and also specifically said "choose only one." I am proud to say that my kids just simply did not follow that rule. They always checked off two categories and were glad to do so.
Not one time - NOT ONE TIME - have I ever heard any of my kids (all of whom are grown now), express the slightest angst about identifying as biracial. When someone has tried to categorize them as one race, they gently correct them most of the time. For awhile, my oldest daughter refused to be categorized as any race at all (she's outgrown this now - this was while she was in junior high) - she would say, "I'm not _____ the black girl, or _______ the white girl, I'm _______ the American." I always got a kick out of that.
We're a very patriotic family. My kids all consider themselves Americans first, Texans second, and biracial somewhere further down the totem pole.
Hey, guess what - I just looked at my birth certificate from Louisiana - early 1960s. This was the original. It seems to be filled out in my dad's handwriting. It asks for the race of the baby, then the race of both parents.
I looked at my husband's original birth certificate. It seems to be filled out by his mother. It's from Texas - late 1950s. It asks for the parents' race but there's no place to put the supposed race of the baby.
I looked at his parents' - one from Texas and one from Louisiana - early 1930s - they both asked for the race of the parents but not the baby.
My oldest son's original, from South Carolina in the 1980s - no mention of the race of anyone - not parents, not the baby.
I didn't try to dig up the other kids' - I seem to recall that for the daughters born in Georgia, there was a space for the race of the baby - and when I asked what to put (since the parents fill it out) the nurse shrugged and said, "Generally, we go by the race of the father."
When I had my youngest son in Texas, I seem to recall asking the same question and the nurse saying casually, "Oh, just put whatever the race of the mother is as the race of the baby."
So I guess it's been a free for all for awhile, depending on what state, what year, etc.
Tell me if the mulatto girl doesn't look closer to black than white. Black genes are dominant and that is just the way it is.
"Thrown into" one category by whom? Why is it so important that they are thrown into one strict category?
Why is it so important for some people to categorize someone as "either black OR white?" Why is the biracial term so difficult for some people to wrap their heads around? Honestly, it seems like a very racist, backwards, Jim Crow One Drop Rule mindset to me.
Other countries don't seem to have a hard time understanding or acknowledging biracial and multiracial people are just that - more than one race and ethnicity. Why is it so difficult to grasp here in what is supposed to be a progressive country?
The reasons for this are simple. Roughly 25% of the ancestry for people who are generally considered black in the US, is of European origin. This 25% is not evenly distributed, but varies widely. This has resulted in a wide range of phenotypes among non biracial people considered black in the US, ranging from just off the boat black, to light, bright, and damn near white, and every shade in between. Therefore, much of what we comfortably consider black, is actually not that black at all. This helps color our view of bi-racials.
People in the US are accustomed to this range of appearances, and the fact that most of these people are considered, and consider themselves to be blacks. When you realize this, you can understand why bi-racials, (most of whom are more white than black, since the black parent is likely to be multi-racial to some degree), tend to be regarded as blacks. They usually fit very well into the range of looks present in the large population of blacks with significant European ancestry, who are not bi-racial (as defined as having one parent of each race). This is also the reason why US blacks so frequently see Afro-Latinos as black. they tend to look like people who are in our group. In my extended family, the colors range from as black as any African, to light enough to be seen as white, with nearly all of the mixing occurring during slavery.
The reasons for this are simple. Roughly 25% of the ancestry for people who are generally considered black in the US, is of European origin. This 25% is not evenly distributed, but varies widely. This has resulted in a wide range of phenotypes among non biracial people considered black in the US, ranging from just off the boat black, to light, bright, and damn near white, and every shade in between. Therefore, much of what we comfortably consider black, is actually not that black at all. This helps color our view of bi-racials.
People in the US are accustomed to this range of appearances, and the fact that most of these people are considered, and consider themselves to be blacks. When you realize this, you can understand why bi-racials, (most of whom are more white than black, since the black parent is likely to be multi-racial to some degree), tend to be regarded as blacks. They usually fit very well into the range of looks present in the large population of blacks with significant European ancestry, who are not bi-racial (as defined as having one parent of each race). This is also the reason why US blacks so frequently see Afro-Latinos as black. they tend to look like people who are in our group. In my extended family, the colors range from as black as any African, to light enough to be seen as white, with nearly all of the mixing occurring during slavery.
In my family, the racial mixing was by and large AFTER the Civil Rights movement. My ex husband (African American) and his family are all dark complected, even though his grandmother was said to be "half Cherokee" (and while I agree - her features seemed very Native American, her skin tone was very dark).
When I say dark complected, I mean VERY dark complected. While there may be some racial mixing far back in the gene pool, by and large his family is very "African" looking with the exception of his grandmother (that would make my ex husband 1/8 Cherokee, and that's likely a very diluted look - and she may have been 1/4 Cherokee rather than 1/2 anyway - there were rumors supporting both mixtures).
So couple that with the fact that even my own DNA testing showed that I am the whitest person I know (97 percent Northern European - at least 70 percent of that from what is now the UK and the rest a smattering of Dutch, Scandinavian, German and a bit of French) - and you end up with kids who are very nearly "half white and half black." Straight down the middle.
Add to that, the fact that we are a military family, very used to interacting in extremely multiracial and multicultural communities. Then add to that the fact that we've either married or adopted (or sometimes both) people from extremely different ethnic and racial backgrounds, and perhaps you can see why it is important to my family to embrace our multiracial family.
Even though both my parents are as white as white can be, our family adopted my brother from Korea. We lived overseas. We lived on military installations. For awhile my dad worked with a ministry and we actually had people of all sorts of races and ethnicities living IN OUR HOME for months at a time.
We kids were absolutely forbidden to disrespect other races or cultures. We were literally disciplined firmly if we did so (kids will say things inadvertently sometimes - as you know, they tend to pick up words they don't even understand). My parents had to take a stand with their older relatives who were against them adopting "that little yellow kid." (Remember that some of them had fought in the Korean war and in WW2.) So they were adamant that we did not engage in any racist talk or stereotyping.
When we lived overseas, or in other regions of the US, my parents embraced the local cultures, history, etc. and made sure to not only expose us to it, we reveled in it - the food, the sites, the religions and traditions, the traditional clothing, the music, you name it.
I am INCREDIBLY grateful to my parents for this upbringing. It was a unique childhood and that upbringing imparted a lifetime fascination for different cultures and traditions. I married a man who wanted a military career and we continued this lifestyle with our own kids. Even after we got divorced, that mindset was ingrained in both of us, as well as our kids. Though we are imperfect parents, I can honestly say that we did not divorce for any reason related to our different races, and I still tried to instill that same appreciation for family history and different cultures in my own kids - and I think I did a good job of it, in spite of my imperfections.
I love their families they are building now - the diversity is very interesting. Like I said earlier, within one generation (my kids' families and inlaws) we have several family members who had to learn English after they came to the US - within the past forty years, some of them within the last 3 years. Our immediate family has family members who still feel more comfortable speaking Czech, Spanish, or Korean.
My parents love this wide, expansive, diverse family as well. I can tell they get a kick out of all the various colors of skin, hair and eyes, hair types, body types, interesting mixtures, family traditions, types of food, you name it. I'm glad to be able to watch them enjoy these kids and grandkids and inlaws so much.
Maybe this helps explain why it is so important to my family to identify as biracial and multiracial. Take for instance, my Panamanian son in law. He is pretty dark complected but has no African ancestry that he is aware of. He spent many years of his childhood living in Panama and adores his Panamanian grandparents. He has dual citizenship. He is married to my youngest daughter, who is the darkest complected of my kids. They have three daughters. One looks straight up Panamanian. One looks straight up African American. One looks definitely biracial or multiracial. But I say all that to say that they are ALL part Panamanian, and their dad is very determined that they understand and embrace that part of their heritage. So what if some people don't recognize that they are part Panamanian? THEY will know it. THEY will probably really like many aspects of that culture and embrace it. They already love the food, the traditional clothing, the music, etc.
Why shouldn't they identify as multiracial or part Panamanian or whatever and correct someone who may assume that they are "African American?" My gosh, they haven't even been raised in an African American community. Their African American great grandmother and great aunts haven't taken the time to visit them even though they live only an hour away. Their African American grandfather only visits them maybe once every three or four years and they don't even remember him at this point - and besides that, he has a military lifestyle, lives in Europe, and has been dating a Korean woman for probably 8 years now. Their mother, who looks African American, wasn't raised in an AA neighborhood or culture. She was raised in a racially diverse culture. Their father was raised in a Latino culture - but he's also half Italian and spent a lot of his older childhood in an Italian neighborhood. His stepfather was Muslim and from I believe Saudi Arabia in fact!
So why should these kids be labeled African American ONLY? Why shouldn't they be called what they truly are - multiracial?
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to verify there is no race in its form
