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Perhaps there is some confusing between Food Stamps and WIC. Food Stamps have no restrictions on types of foods that can be purchased, the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC) does.
Considering how little of the budget goes to "hand outs" as you call them are we talking about the same 8% of the Federal budget? And what defines, "sustainable" levels?
I'm talking about the 69% of federal spending (not budget, actual spending) that goes to handouts.
And sustainable levels are when we can still easily pay interest payments on the federal debt without significantly impacting the rest of the government. Currently, interest payments is still less then 10% of spending, but only because our interest rate is very very low because as a country we have a very good credit rating. But if our deficit keeps growing at the rate it is currently growing, not only will the amount of debt we have to pay interest on go up and up and up, but also our national credit score will go down, increasing the interest rate on the debt we are already paying for. We are a stones throw away from a cascading effect where our credit score gets dinged a bit, our interest rate goes up, the amount of interest we have to pay goes up, causing us to need to borrow more money to pay the interest, causing the deficit to grow, causing our credit score to go down, causing our interest rate to go up, and so on and so on.
We are getting fairly close to this actually happening. That's what all the government shutdowns and furloughs and everything have been about. It's getting serious.
Ok, fair enough tell us what you want to cut. A mom and 2 kids in Tennessee receive $185 in cash (ends after 60 months) and between $450 and $500 in SNAP benefits. It is unlikely that the family will receive a housing voucher unless they spend 6-8 years on a wait list. They also receive medi-caid and if they pay their own utilities they might qualify for a 20% discount on energy costs and if mom is pregnant or there are children under 5 they would qualify for WIC, the average monthly value of which is about $60. So..where are you going to start cutting?
Yes, you did but as I pointed out, it is disingenuous to include Social Security and Medicare and claim they are 'handouts'
No it's not. They are handouts. If the nation gets to the point where they have to cut in to social security and Medicare payouts to instead pay interest on the growing national debt, then the government can do that, and you won't get a payout, but you will still have to pay in. If you die and don't get a payout, your beneficiary does not get the money you paid in. It's just a tax-and-handout system. Income redistribution, taking income from the young and redistributing it to the old.
Anyone who tells you it is NOT a handout is trying to trick you. Is making you look like a gullible fool. "Oh, no, it's not a hand out, you get what you pay in!! Of course!! We just hold it for you for a bit!!" No. They are playing you for a fool. It is disingenuous for someone to tell you it ISNT a handout. It's like someone telling you the earth is flat, or dinosaurs are fake.
1) That's not true, I already posted the actual numbers. Handouts altogether is much much bigger (69%) than defense (18%).
2) I do dislike corporate welfare. I HAVE protested corporate welfare. Back at the very very beginning of the tea party, when it was the tea party patriots, and they were protesting government spending and corporate welfare, I went to a tea party protest. To protest, you guessed it, corporate welfare. The tea party has since morphed into something unrecognizable and disgusting, but in the beginning, the very beginning, they had it right.
3) I am good with military spending because we get a vitally important service in return for the money we contribute. I'm good with any of my taxes that go to pay for a good or service that benefits all citizens. The issue is with the handouts for which there is no good or service received for the money. It's just a handout.
You (all of us) are still getting ripped off by the service, the service is still rife with fraud, it is still about a select few getting rich on the backs of the poor, but with the military they take your kid's lives for the profits. I just went to my nephew's marine boot camp graduation (and no, I do not discuss my views with him out of respect, this is about the higher ups not our soldiers). EVERYTHING is privatized now. No more "clean the toielts with your toothbrush" because now a private company is contracted to clean the barracks. No more peel potatoes, because the food service is contracted. And the government pays ridiculous, uncontested, unbid against amounts for all these services, Halliburton charged $12 for each hamburger they served to a solider. If you think that's not an entitlement we all pay for for someone else's financial benefit, you have your eyes closed, no offense. They have managed to fool people into thinking if they question anything about the military, they aren't patriots and don't support the troops, and we shut our eyes and stick yellow ribbons on our cars and stay simmering in the pot once again.
The really obscene thing, is the same people who own the private companies that profit from war mongering are now the SAME ones who get to decide when we go to war. as is the case with Cheney. Isn't that convenient? you notice it's only your kids, never theirs. And guess what guarantees a steady supply of soldiers? A poor job market and lots of low income people trying to find a way to make it.
We are being so played, and every time you blame someone below you on the economic ladder instead of where the blame belongs, you give them another victory.
Moderator cut: Personal Attack I hear lots of clamor to cut those things. Especially the preferential capital gains tax rate.
Yes, we need to cut across the board, so everyone hurts a little, not just 1 portion of society. Defense has been cut from about 26% to 18% in the last 3 years, but I haven't seen anyone else take any cuts at all. Rich people, poor people, middle class people, olds people, none of them have had cuts. Just the soldiers. It just makes me so mad that the military has actually put their money where their mouth is, taken the cuts, no one else follows suit, and then folks STILL have the nerve to whine about defense spending. Take a cut in sociable security, Medicare, Medicaid, and government assistance as big as the cut defense took. THEN you can talk.
[Snip] Don't you think just maybe defense was cut because of troop withdrawls from Iraq and Afghanistan? In any case, we spend as much on defense as the next seven countries in the world combined and in my opinion, that is obscene
Last edited by Jeo123; 01-24-2016 at 10:49 PM..
Reason: Part of quoted text removed
[Snip] Don't you think just maybe defense was cut because of troop withdrawls from Iraq and Afghanistan? In any case, we spend as much on defense as the next seven countries in the world combined and in my opinion, that is obscene
What? No! Defense was cut because our credit rating moved from a A+++ to an A++ and out interest rate was about to go up if we didn't do something drastic real quick, and so defense took the cut! There was this giant furlough because of it, then our rating went back up! Don't you remember this stuff happening? It was like 2 or 3 years ago? Not that long. It had nothing to do with Iraq or Afghanistan, it only had to do with our federal debt reaching 100% of our GDP.
Goodness people. Pay attention!
Last edited by Jeo123; 01-24-2016 at 10:49 PM..
Reason: Edited quoted text
You (all of us) are still getting ripped off by the service, the service is still rife with fraud, it is still about a select few getting rich on the backs of the poor, but with the military they take your kid's lives for the profits. I just went to my nephew's marine boot camp graduation (and no, I do not discuss my views with him out of respect, this is about the higher ups not our soldiers). EVERYTHING is privatized now. No more "clean the toielts with your toothbrush" because now a private company is contracted to clean the barracks. No more peel potatoes, because the food service is contracted. And the government pays ridiculous, uncontested, unbid against amounts for all these services, Halliburton charged $12 for each hamburger they served to a solider. If you think that's not an entitlement we all pay for for someone else's financial benefit, you have your eyes closed, no offense. They have managed to fool people into thinking if they question anything about the military, they aren't patriots and don't support the troops, and we shut our eyes and stick yellow ribbons on our cars and stay simmering in the pot once again.
The really obscene thing, is the same people who own the private companies that profit from war mongering are now the SAME ones who get to decide when we go to war. as is the case with Cheney. Isn't that convenient? you notice it's only your kids, never theirs. And guess what guarantees a steady supply of soldiers? A poor job market and lots of low income people trying to find a way to make it.
We are being so played, and every time you blame someone below you on the economic ladder instead of where the blame belongs, you give them another victory.
I have been acquainted with many different government acquisition and purchasing offices over the last few years, and have not yet seen a single purchase or acquisition that was not competed. They are absolutely anal about it these days.
I do believe what you describe was true several years ago. Not anymore though.
I don't support anything. It's just life. Reality. Reality is that there aren't enough jobs for everyone. And I'm not complaining about people not working. I am just not willing to pay for more than their absolutely essential needs. That's just how life works. It's not fair.
I don't have 3 kids, I only have 2, because I calculated that I can only easily support 2. I want 3, sure, but I can't afford it. And that's life.
And punishing doesn't come into it anywhere. If there are 3 (generic) people, and 2 (generic) outfits, then the two people who get to the clothes first get to get dressed, and one doesn't. There is no punishment involved. We are not putting people in jail just for being poor.
No actually we do put people in jail for being poor. If you think being made to be poor isn't punishment enough.
We have a entire system of law dedicated to gating off wealth to certain people and denying it to other people, based more on who your parents were than anything else. You don't think that amounts to punishment? If you're okay with this society, you don't get to complain about crime, you don't get to complain about riots, you don't get to complain about protests. You're supporting the status quo that forces these things to happen, and if you want to sit around saying "well why don't the poor just stop complaining or become rich" then you don't get to complain when people make fun of you and your myopic self-interest.
Why don't they just bring back the list of items that could not be purchased that was around up until the mid 1990s? It was no high end cut of meat (filet minor and what not unless discounted) no chips, soda, candy or even ice cream which was empty calories. That had to be paid for in cash and the register rang it up that way automatically.... so it can be easily done again with today's computer based registers.
I still remember my Grandma driving 30 minutes to go get in line for the surplus butter, cheese and powdered milk. This wasn't bad stuff. Often they had day old bread on site. Many meals were prepared just from that. Bring that back too. Many places abandoned that program.
Get people back to healthy whole food not the processed crap and they will eat better, the kids will get healthier and learn better and they will spend less in the long run.
I was on the old food stamps when they were coupons back in 1995. I remember the restrictions. If I wanted a .50 candy bar I saved money from laundry day. Otherwise it was a no go. And the stores were strict about it since they were audited often. But now it's all about the bottom line and I bet some of the big box stores have alot to do with it.
Are you sure you aren't talking about WIC instead of food stamps?
And why ban cookies and ice cream? I had a friend give me an ice cream maker for Christmas. So if I couldn't buy it in the stores, I could make it at home. Ditto with cookies and candy.
As for the "high end meat", are you really trying to tell me I need to pay $4/lb for hamburger and can't spend $2.99/lb on London broil when it's on sale? When you get food stamps, you're supposed to save money, not spend more.
And I can get day old bread at the bakery outlet. I would be spending about 22¢ a loaf less than I would if I were buying it in the store. That's not worth driving over there for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InchingWest
I've advocated either community service or that they'd have to go to a designated location and sit in a room for 8 hours. No sitty downy = No payoutty. Punctuality would be important and a certain number of lates would get them booted, as would being violent or even uppity. Sorry Shaniqua, but you're gonna have to sit your giant butt down, shut your pie hole, and be quiet & humble for once.
If I have to go work my butt off to pay taxes then they can at least muster themselves to a designated area and sit. Two, maybe 4 bathroom breaks would be allowed and they can only drink water. No more X-box at home while drinking liquor on the taxpayer time. No TV or movies either. They can read books if they want, but no magazines. Obviously viewing a selection of help wanted ads and filling out applications would be allowed, but that activity should be supervised. No playing on the internet.
Once they're bored many will want to get jobs very very quickly.
Drug testing will occur weekly on a random day or at the supervisor's discretion. If I am subject to being drug tested (haven't been at my current job but my employer has that option should he ever choose to use it) then welfare recipients should be too. I don't care that it costs a bit because the fraud is more expensive and the moral implications of welfare are far too destructive to our society overall.
They've already done the drug testing in several states on welfare recipients and dropped it because for the amount of money it cost the taxpayers (YOU!), they didn't find a whole lot of people that tested positive for being on drugs. But...it's your tax money. If you want to waste it......
It's very plain to see you've never needed to apply for food stamps or welfare. Every time you go into DSHS you sit and wait, for hours. I've gone into the ER when I didn't have health insurance and waited 5 hours to be seen. Hello! *waves* Been there, done that. And so have a lot of other people. Anyway, I always bring my own books and MAGAZINES (which I got for free on Craig's List).
And there is no "viewing" of help wanted ads. Most applications for employment are online now. When was the last time you applied for a job? 1995? While you're at it, why don't you volunteer to be the overseer of all these people sitting in chairs? I bet you could even bring in a whip if you wanted to.
And you aren't the only one working your butt off to pay taxes. Most people getting food stamps also work - and pay taxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkbab5
You are saying that I should be okay with paying taxes towards government assistance, because if I didn't then poor people would hold me up at gunpoint to steal my money to feed their kids? You are saying, then, that you feel that GA is stealing, and that the poor are stealing from the not poor under threat of violence. And that's your rational for GA. Amazing.
I have no problem paying taxes for services, like roads, schools, police, etc. I don't even have a problem contributing to a social safety net. It does lead to a more stable economy. My only assertion is that we are currently spending too much on the social safety net and jeapodizing out ability to afford a social safety net in the future. We're racking up huge amounts of debt, and when we get to the point where the debt interest payments become unsustainable, we won't have enough money for a social safety net, the military, schools, anything. That needs to not happen. Defense has been cut big time in the past couple years, but the handouts have grown. The handouts need to face the same cuts as defense has, so that we can get closer to a balanced budget. Handouts have the most room to be trimmed right now, we need to do it.
Oh, and I believe I demonstrated in another post the percentage comparison between handout spending (69%) and defense spending (18%).
Again, for the umpty umpth time, most people on food stamps work. Therefore, they are ALSO paying taxes. I worked and I paid taxes and you're more generous than I am. I really don't like paying taxes for public schools so people can educate their children for free, especially since I don't have kids myself. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? If you have kids, then pay to educate them yourself. Don't take my tax dollars to do it. You're right, we are spending too much money on public handouts lately. So I propose we cut all money that goes to public education.
OK, so that was tongue in cheek. But I hope you can see that whatever rationale you use can bite both ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkbab5
Moderator cut: Personal Attack I hear lots of clamor to cut those things. Especially the preferential capital gains tax rate.
Yes, we need to cut across the board, so everyone hurts a little, not just 1 portion of society. Defense has been cut from about 26% to 18% in the last 3 years, but I haven't seen anyone else take any cuts at all. Rich people, poor people, middle class people, olds people, none of them have had cuts. Just the soldiers. It just makes me so mad that the military has actually put their money where their mouth is, taken the cuts, no one else follows suit, and then folks STILL have the nerve to whine about defense spending. Take a cut in social security, Medicare, Medicaid, and government assistance as big as the cut defense took. THEN you can talk.
Well, as I said, let's cut public education. You have kids, you pay for their education. It's not free, you know, and there are many, many people on food stamps who are working and their taxes - money they could use in their pockets - are going to support your kids in public school. And actually, in private schools as well, since so many of those schools also get government money.
If I have to work to buy food, then lazy people should have to wait in line to get free food. Note: no $600 smart phones allowed in line either. Poor is poor. . . . Not poor after having a bunch of stuff.
Just curious, you are in favor of banning grown adults who stand in line for free food from using their expensive dumb phones while in line ?
Plain stupid !
I don't understand those who are complaining because they are paying taxes for SNAP recipients. Theyare failing to realize that they pay also taxes for many programs and services they don't personally use. I'm not complaining because I pay a [lot] of property taxes (among the highest rate in the country) to send TX children to public school when I don't have children, as do millions of other people. And what of citizens who pay taxes for road construction and improvements on roads they don't ever drive on? Or pay taxes for police when they don't utilize that service? You want to live in a First World, industrialized nation in which people are reasonably safe and secure? You have to pay taxes to finance these things, for you and everyone else. The money doesn't fall out of the sky.
Last edited by Jeo123; 01-25-2016 at 09:03 AM..
Reason: Language
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