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Old 06-25-2018, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,216 posts, read 11,338,692 times
Reputation: 20828

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Dissenting or single-issue movements within American history are nothing new; and if we exclude the many years of increasing polarization that led up to the Civil War, only the Whiskey, Shays and Dorr "Rebellions" can be characterized as fore-runners to an intended insurrection, armed or otherwise, and all were resolved prior to 1850, with little or no bloodshed, and within a very short time.

But the Social Justice movement appears to represent an entirely new variation of this phenomenon; the term first surfaced in 2011, if its appearance on Twitter is regarded as a watershed, but many of its advocates and detractors alike regard It as a by-product of the disturbances at the 1968 Democratic National Convention, after which a number of prominent demonstrators found themselves certified as delegates four years later. And the tactics found "closest to the street" can be viewed as a refinement of the Freedom Rides and similar actions in the early-and mid-Sixties.

And there's little doubt that the election of Donald Trump came as a complete (and very unpleasant) suprise to a constituency which had invested heavily in continued center-left dominance and movement toward a mild form of a one-party hegemony.

But the Social Justice Advocacy can be differentiated by the point that many of its followers see their role as linked to an emerging global consensus; witness, for example, the lionizing of figures such as Elon Musk and George Soros. And it can also be argued that while the phenomenon of McCarthyism, later repackaged to some degree as a far more secular and ideologically-oriented movement in the symposia of Ayn Rand in the late Fifties, and which fueled the efforts of the late William F Buckley and his magazine National Review, represented a counter-measure, the resentments were neither as great, nor as "earthy'.

It seems certain that regardless of the results, the coming mid-term elections will merely set the stage for another showdown two years beyond.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 06-25-2018 at 05:10 PM..
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:14 PM
 
2,309 posts, read 3,851,182 times
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As a history major we were always taught that you can only analyze historical events every 25 years (these last couple years I'm surprised there hasn't been more revisiting of WWI since it has been 100 years). So I'll let ya know in 2043. By then I'll be in my 60s and have plenty of time to think about it haha.
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,822 posts, read 24,335,838 times
Reputation: 32953
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
Dissenting or single-issue movements within American history are nothing new; and if we exclude the many years of increasing polarization that led up to the Civil War, only the Whiskey, Shays and Dorr "Rebellions" can be characterized as fore-runners to an intended insurrection, armed or otherwise, and all were resolved prior to 1850, with little or no bloodshed, and within a very short time.

But the Social Justice movement appears to represent an entirely new variation of this phenomenon; the term first surfaced in 2011, if its appearance on Twitter is regarded as a watershed, but many of its advocates and detractors alike regard It as a by-product of the disturbances at the 1968 Democratic National Convention, after which a number of prominent demonstrators found themselves certified as delegates four years later. And the tactics found "closest to the street" can be viewed as a refinement of the Freedom Rides and similar actions in the early-and mid-Sixties.

And there's little doubt that the election of Donald Trump came as a complete (and very unpleasant) suprise to a constituency which had invested heavily in continued center-left dominance and movement toward a mild form of a one-party hegemony.

But the Social Justice Advocacy can be differentiated by the point that many of its followers see their role as linked to an emerging global consensus; witness, for example, the lionizing of figures such as Elon Musk and George Soros. And it can also be argued that while the phenomenon of McCarthyism, later repackaged to some degree as a far more secular and ideologically-oriented movement in the symposia of Ayn Rand in the late Fifties, and which fueled the efforts of the late William F Buckley and his magazine National Review, represented a counter-measure, the resentments were neither as great, nor as "earthy'.

It seems certain that regardless of the results, the coming mid-term elections will merely set the stage for another showdown two years beyond.
First of all, well-written post.

I know it's an awfully simple concept...seemingly too simple...but I think part of the answer is the old pendulum-effect. And I think it happens within parties and within the greater political atmosphere. Things will swing more liberal for a while, and then things will swing more conservative for a while. And generally I think that's a good thing (I say generally, but I do not say that is true now). Coupled with that is the tendency of both parties to "over-reach", and that over-reach becomes most severe when there is a strong victory on one side or the other.

I look back at the 1964 debacle on the Republican side of things. What a whooping the Republicans got. And then in 1972 it was the Democrat debacle and the whooping they got. And after Obama's victory the last time, I remember in the press seeing reports of "Will the Republicans ever win again?" And more recently I've seen articles about "Will the Democrats ever win again?"

In your second paragraph you do seem to contradict yourself. On the one hand you see the Social Justice movement as "an entirely new variation of this phenomenon", but then you turn around and see it as "a refinement of the Freedom Rides and similar actions in the early-and mid-Sixties". I don't think it's that different from the Freedom Rides or even abolition of slavery movements. It's just a continuation of the same theme which has evolved over time.

I also think that the whole George Soros thing -- which is really no different than the Koch Brothers on the other side -- is not as big a thing as conservatives make it out to be. He's a rich man who buys influence. Gee, we never heard of that before. Soros and the Koch Brothers have one thing in common...they're on a rather short trail to death. Soros is nearly 90. One of the Koch brothers is reportedly very ill. When they die, other villains to the right and left will take their place.
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,216 posts, read 11,338,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
In your second paragraph you do seem to contradict yourself. On the one hand you see the Social Justice movement as "an entirely new variation of this phenomenon", but then you turn around and see it as "a refinement of the Freedom Rides and similar actions in the early-and mid-Sixties". I don't think it's that different from the Freedom Rides or even abolition of slavery movements. It's just a continuation of the same theme which has evolved over time.
It's a fair observation. but the point I was trying to emphasize was that it hasn't been determined whether the SJW advocacy is more likely to view its mission in internationalist terms, rather than the single issues confined to (within) one nation-state, which was the case for the three (short-lived) movements prior to 1850.

During my undergraduate days, as part of a course on the history of Marxism, I read My Life as a Rebel, by Angelica Balabanoff, a European socialist/Marxist agitator who was very active in the years before and after the October Revolution in 1917. Balabanoff (who was to live until 1965) heavily criticized Lenin for repeated purges of what he termed "petty bourgeois socialists" during those years. It remains to be seen whether the SJW movement of the present day will reman cohesive, and whether it will concentrate on opposition to the Trump Administration, or move on to other issues, possibly on an internationalist basis.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 06-27-2018 at 08:57 PM..
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,822 posts, read 24,335,838 times
Reputation: 32953
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
It's a fair observation. but the point I was trying to emphasize was that it hasn't been determined whether the SJW advocacy is more likely to view its mission in internationalist terms, rather than the single issues confined to (within) one nation-state, which was the case for the three (short-lived) movements prior to 1850.

During my undergraduate days, as part of a course on the history of Marxism, I read My Life as a Rebel, by Angelica Balabanoff, a European socialist/Marxist agitator who was very active in the years before and after the October Revolution in 1917. Balabanoff (who was to live until 1965) heavily criticized Lenin for repeated purges of what he termed "petty bourgeois socialists" during those years. It remains to be seen whether the SJW movement of the present day will reman cohesive, and whether it will concentrate on opposition to the Trump Administration, or move on to other issues, possibly on an internationalist basis.
Ah. Okay. I can see that.
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Old 06-29-2018, 01:17 PM
 
5,842 posts, read 4,177,467 times
Reputation: 7668
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
Dissenting or single-issue movements within American history are nothing new; and if we exclude the many years of increasing polarization that led up to the Civil War, only the Whiskey, Shays and Dorr "Rebellions" can be characterized as fore-runners to an intended insurrection, armed or otherwise, and all were resolved prior to 1850, with little or no bloodshed, and within a very short time.

But the Social Justice movement appears to represent an entirely new variation of this phenomenon; the term first surfaced in 2011, if its appearance on Twitter is regarded as a watershed, but many of its advocates and detractors alike regard It as a by-product of the disturbances at the 1968 Democratic National Convention, after which a number of prominent demonstrators found themselves certified as delegates four years later. And the tactics found "closest to the street" can be viewed as a refinement of the Freedom Rides and similar actions in the early-and mid-Sixties.

And there's little doubt that the election of Donald Trump came as a complete (and very unpleasant) suprise to a constituency which had invested heavily in continued center-left dominance and movement toward a mild form of a one-party hegemony.

But the Social Justice Advocacy can be differentiated by the point that many of its followers see their role as linked to an emerging global consensus; witness, for example, the lionizing of figures such as Elon Musk and George Soros. And it can also be argued that while the phenomenon of McCarthyism, later repackaged to some degree as a far more secular and ideologically-oriented movement in the symposia of Ayn Rand in the late Fifties, and which fueled the efforts of the late William F Buckley and his magazine National Review, represented a counter-measure, the resentments were neither as great, nor as "earthy'.

It seems certain that regardless of the results, the coming mid-term elections will merely set the stage for another showdown two years beyond.
That was a lot of words that weren't particularly clear to me, so I'm not sure I understand the question. But I know for a fact that the phrase "social justice" was used somewhat widely well before 2011.

I know how to understand the question "How should we define the social justice movement?" I also know how to understand the question "How should we describe the social justice movement in an historical context?" I do not know how to define a phrase in an historical context, though. A definition is simply a definition.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:08 AM
 
4,345 posts, read 2,795,289 times
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I graduated in 1972 and social justice was an old expression then. I don't like it.

It's vague and suffers from the same problem that the word social has wherever it's used: it negates the word immediately following it. Social justice, social work mean not justice and not work. Social studies is another one. People who major in social studies don't study or study nothing. Or sometimes both.

I prefer justice, simply. It's adequate to address the causes the social justice warriors are so agitated about.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:43 AM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,949,172 times
Reputation: 18151
As a movement created by people who wanted to argue and fight, who were more interested in causing problems then fixing anything.

They do not have a goal that is measurable > they will not have an 'accomplishment' that is measurable.

The will not have solved/improved anything. In the end, history will not be kind. But it will take a long time to get there, I'm afraid.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Heart of the desert lands
3,976 posts, read 1,991,693 times
Reputation: 5219
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
Dissenting or single-issue movements within American history are nothing new; and if we exclude the many years of increasing polarization that led up to the Civil War, only the Whiskey, Shays and Dorr "Rebellions" can be characterized as fore-runners to an intended insurrection, armed or otherwise, and all were resolved prior to 1850, with little or no bloodshed, and within a very short time.

But the Social Justice movement appears to represent an entirely new variation of this phenomenon; the term first surfaced in 2011, if its appearance on Twitter is regarded as a watershed, but many of its advocates and detractors alike regard It as a by-product of the disturbances at the 1968 Democratic National Convention, after which a number of prominent demonstrators found themselves certified as delegates four years later. And the tactics found "closest to the street" can be viewed as a refinement of the Freedom Rides and similar actions in the early-and mid-Sixties.

And there's little doubt that the election of Donald Trump came as a complete (and very unpleasant) suprise to a constituency which had invested heavily in continued center-left dominance and movement toward a mild form of a one-party hegemony.

But the Social Justice Advocacy can be differentiated by the point that many of its followers see their role as linked to an emerging global consensus; witness, for example, the lionizing of figures such as Elon Musk and George Soros. And it can also be argued that while the phenomenon of McCarthyism, later repackaged to some degree as a far more secular and ideologically-oriented movement in the symposia of Ayn Rand in the late Fifties, and which fueled the efforts of the late William F Buckley and his magazine National Review, represented a counter-measure, the resentments were neither as great, nor as "earthy'.

It seems certain that regardless of the results, the coming mid-term elections will merely set the stage for another showdown two years beyond.
I'm having trouble with the simple link of George Soros and Elon Musk (two totally different beasts) being used in the same sentence as "SJW lionized figures".
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,540 posts, read 2,769,559 times
Reputation: 5277
I've never met an SJW or really any liberal who cares about George Soros in the slightest. Soros lives exclusively and rent-free in the imaginations of the reactionary right.
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