Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 11-11-2020, 05:01 PM
 
2,289 posts, read 1,569,516 times
Reputation: 1800

Advertisements

Currently there are 10 military bases named after Confederate heroes. All are in Confederate states. Pentagon top brass plus just fired Sec. Def. Esper have indicated they are open to discussion about changing the names, due in part to a rise of white supremacy in the ranks.

Both the House*and Senate have passed the*necessary legislation to permit it by wide margins, but other*parts of the bill, not yet resolved, have delayed its transmission to the President for signature.

Our fearless leader, for reasons best known to himself, has said if the names of these facilities are changed, he will veto the $740B Defense Appropriations Bill, which will likely be sent to him before the end of the year.

Given that it is unlikely that the names will not be changed before he leaves office, rendering the issue moot in relation to him. Seems clear to me he should not veto? Agree or disagree, and why?

 
Old 11-12-2020, 06:19 AM
 
4,143 posts, read 1,876,878 times
Reputation: 5776
I happen to think that any decision to rename military bases should be within the purview of the military. I think that our military leaders know better than our Washington bureaucrats or the President as how to best to deal with disciplinary problems (such as white supremacy in the ranks). I would like to hear more on what our military leaders have to say on the issue.
 
Old 11-12-2020, 06:23 AM
 
18,131 posts, read 25,296,596 times
Reputation: 16835
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Very Man Himself View Post
Currently there are 10 military bases named after Confederate heroes. All are in Confederate states. Pentagon top brass plus just fired Sec. Def. Esper have indicated they are open to discussion about changing the names, due in part to a rise of white supremacy in the ranks.
Thanks to the whitewashing of American history
And then people get mad when some people ask for statues to be removed
 
Old 11-12-2020, 08:12 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,090 posts, read 83,000,140 times
Reputation: 43666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
And then people get mad when some people ask for statues to be removed
Since you mention it... the root issue IS the very same one.
 
Old 11-12-2020, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Florida -
10,213 posts, read 14,839,105 times
Reputation: 21848
Is there anyone (except a radically idealistic few - and of course, the complicit media), who truly believes the past can be changed by renaming things or tearing-down statues; that the truth can be changed, by simply declaring otherwise or that reality can be changed by changing the appearance of things or 'how one describes something?'

One keeps hoping that people will wake-up someday and decide that 'political correctness' is anything, but, correct -- and that truth is not determined by polls. Sadly, I suspect 'that train has left the station' and is pulling further into the distance as the 'communications' of our time become even more pervasive and invasive.
 
Old 11-12-2020, 09:48 AM
 
2,289 posts, read 1,569,516 times
Reputation: 1800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
I happen to think that any decision to rename military bases should be within the purview of the military. I think that our military leaders know better than our Washington bureaucrats or the President as how to best to deal with disciplinary problems (such as white supremacy in the ranks). I would like to hear more on what our military leaders have to say on the issue.
Indeed. Each branch of the military has its own naming protocols.The army situation arose because between 1890 and 1940 they needed large swaths of land in the south, and offered the confederate names to get local buy-in.*

Quote:
Although in the past the military resisted those calls, last month Secretary of Defense Mark Esper and Secretary of the Army Ryan D. McCarthy were reportedly "open" to the idea.

An ABC News-Ipsos poll released last month showed that 56% of those surveyed oppose changing the names of bases, although that figure was heavily skewed by race – 67% of African Americans favored the move, while 32% of white Americans and 54% of Hispanic Americans support it.
 
Old 11-12-2020, 09:54 AM
 
2,289 posts, read 1,569,516 times
Reputation: 1800
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Is there anyone (except a radically idealistic few - and of course, the complicit media), who truly believes the past can be changed by renaming things or tearing-down statues; that the truth can be changed, by simply declaring otherwise or that reality can be changed by changing the appearance of things or 'how one describes something?'

One keeps hoping that people will wake-up someday and decide that 'political correctness' is anything, but, correct -- and that truth is not determined by polls. Sadly, I suspect 'that train has left the station' and is pulling further into the distance as the 'communications' of our time become even more pervasive and invasive.
In your view, what is truth determined by?
 
Old 11-12-2020, 10:14 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,090 posts, read 83,000,140 times
Reputation: 43666
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Is there anyone ... who truly believes the past can be changed ...
Straw Man much? I suspect that even you know the difference well enough.
And no, you aren't required to like changes in the understanding of <whichever bias has your drawers in a knot this week>.
 
Old 11-12-2020, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
30,585 posts, read 25,173,318 times
Reputation: 50802
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Is there anyone (except a radically idealistic few - and of course, the complicit media), who truly believes the past can be changed by renaming things or tearing-down statues; that the truth can be changed, by simply declaring otherwise or that reality can be changed by changing the appearance of things or 'how one describes something?'

One keeps hoping that people will wake-up someday and decide that 'political correctness' is anything, but, correct -- and that truth is not determined by polls. Sadly, I suspect 'that train has left the station' and is pulling further into the distance as the 'communications' of our time become even more pervasive and invasive.
No one imagines that renaming army bases will change the past or our present reality. What IS shameful is that traitors to our country, and men who actively supported enslaving other humans, are memorialized by naming army bases for them, and by having heroic statues of them in public places.

No one should be making heroes of those men. They put loyalty to their states, and to their economic welfare, above the oath of loyalty to the Constitution which they took as members of the US military.

They are traitors.
 
Old 11-12-2020, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,831 posts, read 24,347,720 times
Reputation: 32954
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Is there anyone (except a radically idealistic few - and of course, the complicit media), who truly believes the past can be changed by renaming things or tearing-down statues; that the truth can be changed, by simply declaring otherwise or that reality can be changed by changing the appearance of things or 'how one describes something?'

One keeps hoping that people will wake-up someday and decide that 'political correctness' is anything, but, correct -- and that truth is not determined by polls. Sadly, I suspect 'that train has left the station' and is pulling further into the distance as the 'communications' of our time become even more pervasive and invasive.
What is "historical" is not always what was true.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top