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It looks like its too late now. The South African strain is here in the USA and will probably spread like wildfire to people with or without the vaccine. This could have been avoided by shutting the USA off from all international travel. Or at the very least mandatory quarantine facilities where every incoming international traveler would have needed to stay for 10 days to 2 weeks. It would have been a massive undertaking but if a country like New Zealand could do it, why not here?
Was it a huge mistake for not having this in place? With the possibility of new stains popping up should we do this now? I know there is a voluntary quarantine for inbound international travel. But that is not the same thing. If someone decides they do not want to quarantine there is not way with the current rules to stop them.
Unfortunately we seem to be largely governed by [Politically correct solutions[/i], rather than by objectives and real-world results. The current philosophy seems to be "print our way out of trouble," but that's always become a recipe for disaster.
Even if we shut-off air-traffic and double check everyone at the border stations, what are we going to do about the unimpeded masses the Dems are inviting to simply walk-in and stay?? It seems like one approach contradicts the other.
Unfortunately we seem to be largely governed by [Politically correct solutions[/i], rather than by objectives and real-world results. The current philosophy seems to be "print our way out of trouble," but that's always become a recipe for disaster.
Even if we shut-off air-traffic and double check everyone at the border stations, what are we going to do about the unimpeded masses the Dems are inviting to simply walk-in and stay?? It seems like one approach contradicts the other.
Politics plays into it. As well as the fact that we can't currently stop all human traffic coming over out southern border. And as it stands now Americans can travel into Mexico by car with zero restrictions or checks on either side. Even though officially the border is closed for recreational travel.
And I agree instead of actually dealing with the pandemic we will just keep sending out stimulus checks. But if this virus keeps mutating and spreading for years to come just printing more money will not be a good solution.
It looks like its too late now. The South African strain is here in the USA and will probably spread like wildfire to people with or without the vaccine. This could have been avoided by shutting the USA off from all international travel. Or at the very least mandatory quarantine facilities where every incoming international traveler would have needed to stay for 10 days to 2 weeks. It would have been a massive undertaking but if a country like New Zealand could do it, why not here?
Didn't Biden issue an EO prohibiting the geographical inclusion in the designation of a disease?
Right - Canada border is tight - but not so, the southern side. Air Traffic stoppage would prevent some - but you have to be realistic. We're not talking about a couple dozen tourists per day here. We're talking about thousands, or hundreds of thousands, of business people of all kinds who keep the world running even thru this disaster.
If you prevent the international traffic - it might (temporarily) stop the import of variants - but if you think the economy suffers now, wait til there's no international commerce.
Few - very few - international travelers are on vacation. Nope. Most are keeping the things you need running smoothly. Electricity. Fuel. Food. And so on. Some things just cannot be done virtually - believe me, I've tried.
On the other "other" hand - I just was on a domestic flight, packed to the gills - and I'd say more than half, maybe 75%, were just out and about - pleasure travelers. I identify them by their spouses or children in tow, or their college wardrobe. Not on business. This is not about catching it on a plane - that's not likely - but you are taking your "strain" from NYC and releasing it in LA on the same day. THAT is the hazard of domestic travel.
But again - if you stop it (the travel, I mean) - your way of life will come to a screeching halt. There is NOTHING you use on a day to day basis that does not require state-to-state travel. Nothing.
The problem is US travelers from those countries do not have to mandatory quarantine. Same problem with Trump and the China and Europe travel bans. Americans come back by the thousands and spread the virus. But unless we require all people from coming into the USA to quarantine these so called travel bans do little. And with the China ban, Chinese citizens simply flew to Europe and then into the USA. That is why NYC got hit early on.
Right - Canada border is tight - but not so, the southern side. Air Traffic stoppage would prevent some - but you have to be realistic. We're not talking about a couple dozen tourists per day here. We're talking about thousands, or hundreds of thousands, of business people of all kinds who keep the world running even thru this disaster.
You are telling me with the ability to meet and have conferences via Zoom, etc that the world needs people flying internationally for business ? My guess is most of the current international travel is for leisure. I know travel to Mexico during 2020 for vacations was more than ever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roodd279
If you prevent the international traffic - it might (temporarily) stop the import of variants - but if you think the economy suffers now, wait til there's no international commerce.
Few - very few - international travelers are on vacation. Nope. Most are keeping the things you need running smoothly. Electricity. Fuel. Food. And so on. Some things just cannot be done virtually - believe me, I've tried.
If Americans have to stay in the states and those in other countries have to stay in their countries its a wash here. The US will lose a little money because there are more people coming here to vacation than the other way around but its just a few billion dollars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roodd279
On the other "other" hand - I just was on a domestic flight, packed to the gills - and I'd say more than half, maybe 75%, were just out and about - pleasure travelers. I identify them by their spouses or children in tow, or their college wardrobe. Not on business. This is not about catching it on a plane - that's not likely - but you are taking your "strain" from NYC and releasing it in LA on the same day. THAT is the hazard of domestic travel.
But again - if you stop it (the travel, I mean) - your way of life will come to a screeching halt. There is NOTHING you use on a day to day basis that does not require state-to-state travel. Nothing.
I have traveled interstate many times in the past year. But I do it by car and wear a mask and social distance, etc. I would say there is very little risk I am contributing to the spread of covid. Flying would be a whole different thing. I am not doing that until the pandemic is a distant memory.
And I agree flying might be safe but spreading the virus quickly is the problem. I have homes in different states so I stay most of the time in my homes.
That's how countries that are the rare success stories in Covid control did it: the sealed the borders. Mongolia, which kept numbers low from the day they found their first case, and still keeps them low, stopped flights from Korea and elsewhere, sealed the long border with China, and sent health workers and volunteers out into the country side, to distribute PPE to nomadic herders and residents of small villages. All gatherings and traditional ceremonies were banned. Everyone was required to mask up. They got some cheap ventilators, and took care of the few cases that arose requiring hospitalization.
Their count is at rock bottom. This, in a country where many households even in the capital don't have running water. If the US had taken this approach in places like the Navajo Nation and surrounding areas that are among the worst-hit, the statistics there would be very different. The statistics nation-wide would be much better.
Although the US couldn't realistically have closed all airports last spring (again--business travel), they could have stopped flights from China, Korea, Japan, and other hotspots, whether business travel or not.
What I don't understand, is the recent phenomenon of job-seeking tour groups from the UK coming here to get jobs. This is how the UK variant got to Colorado and NM. Why is this being allowed? How are these people getting jobs and visas? Since when do our embassies give out visas to unskilled workers who are unemployed? WTH is going on??!
So every time there is some new strain we shut down everything because old people are at risk of catching something?
I think we need to focus on the economy and getting back to living. Let's face it this is our new norm. It has been over a year now and we are in worse shape now than ever. Shutting down is doing about nothing. Mother Nature is tough and sometimes it cleans house. The strong will survive. It is just reality. We are pretending we are in control, but clearly we aren't. Science? Sure it might work sometimes, but over a year and nothing. Herd immunity is the only real solution. It is what Mother Nature intended. Taking a shot is a bandaid.
No. As usual, but the time the scientists catch on it's already spread. So shutting down travel to keep a new strain out is kind of pointless - and maybe not even warranted, because so far they seem to be somewhat more contagious but still stoppable by vaccines. That probably means they're also stoppable by natural immunity and aren't going to spread like wildfire in places that already had a significant wave.
I do think for-fun travel should have been stopped over the holidays. It's ridiculous how many people took the opportunity, got sick on their trips, and then spread it around. That just makes no sense. If we're going to have any restrictions at all, that's the least damaging thing to restrict IMO, and the most effective.
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