Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The shower is well known as a source of good ideas. But the toilet? Equally promising, says Gerardine Botte, a professor of chemical and biomolecular engineering at Ohio University who has developed a technology to generate hydrogen fuel from urine.
Botte recognized that urine contains two compounds that could be a source of hydrogen: ammonia and urea. Place an electrode in wastewater, apply a gentle current, and voila: hydrogen gas that can be used to power a fuel cell.
It's called electrolysis, breaking water into hydrogen and oxygen. This isn't new, and is not energy positive (you must put more energy into the electrode than is released by hydrogen and oxygen).
Energy positive is not necessarily an important criteria.
Why wouldn't net energy be an important criteria? To use something as a power source that needs more power than it produces doesn't seem green to me.
Years ago, I recall endothermic and exothermic reactions as those which consume or produce power.
Just off hand, this would seemingly be an endothermic reaction. The byproducts would include hydrogen, oxygen, sodium hydroxide (NaOH aka Lye), and other more or less caustic materials.
Even if a catalyst were used to lower the energy cost, I can't imagine production of hydrogen would be energy positive from any reaction. Worse, the breakdown produces a number of combustants and caustic chemicals which may be more difficult to manage and evacuate from a rest room than urine.
Why wouldn't net energy be an important criteria? To use something as a power source that needs more power than it produces doesn't seem green to me.
Years ago, I recall endothermic and exothermic reactions as those which consume or produce power.
Just off hand, this would seemingly be an endothermic reaction. The byproducts would include hydrogen, oxygen, sodium hydroxide (NaOH aka Lye), and other more or less caustic materials.
Even if a catalyst were used to lower the energy cost, I can't imagine production of hydrogen would be energy positive from any reaction. Worse, the breakdown produces a number of combustants and caustic chemicals which may be more difficult to manage and evacuate from a rest room than urine.
The simplest example is that production of electricity is net energy negative, but electricity is more valuable than the fuels used to produce it. Whether producing hydrogen makes sense depends upon the ultimate use of the hydrogen.
The simplest example is that production of electricity is net energy negative, but electricity is more valuable than the fuels used to produce it. Whether producing hydrogen makes sense depends upon the ultimate use of the hydrogen.
Not quite, the energy to produce electricity is often from combustion of a fuel. For example coal, natural gas, oil. The combustion of the fuel is net energy positive, and is as heat, the heat is transformed via engineering and turbines into electricity.
The output from a generator plant is a net positive energy (exothermic) reaction to the input. In the case of the urine, more energy is needed to create hydrogen than is released from the combustion of hydrogen. Thus we are consuming more power can be produced.
If we input 1,000 watts of energy (cost about 12-15 cents in most of the U.S. at this time) and get only 300 watts of energy from hydrogen out, we are not creating any power, we are wasting power and creating many hazardous byproducts which require more management than urine.
If being energy positive is acknowledged as a criteria, then almost every initiative related to being "green" when it comes to energy use is also challenged, therefore few will consider it as a valid criteria.
Not quite, the energy to produce electricity is often from combustion of a fuel. For example coal, natural gas, oil. The combustion of the fuel is net energy positive, and is as heat, the heat is transformed via engineering and turbines into electricity.
The output from a generator plant is a net positive energy (exothermic) reaction to the input. In the case of the urine, more energy is needed to create hydrogen than is released from the combustion of hydrogen. Thus we are consuming more power can be produced.
If we input 1,000 watts of energy (cost about 12-15 cents in most of the U.S. at this time) and get only 300 watts of energy from hydrogen out, we are not creating any power, we are wasting power and creating many hazardous byproducts which require more management than urine.
In a coal fired plant about 2/3 of the energy input is exhausted as waste heat, about 1/3 becomes electricity. In natural gas it's about 1/2. Net energy negative conversions.
In a coal fired plant about 2/3 of the energy input is exhausted as waste heat, about 1/3 becomes electricity. In natural gas it's about 1/2. Net energy negative conversions.
Yeah, and you'll need many new fossil plants is pee power becomes the rage. This will pollute far more than it ever greens.
If being energy positive is acknowledged as a criteria, then almost every initiative related to being "green" when it comes to energy use is also challenged, therefore few will consider it as a valid criteria.
Yeah, green energy should be green ENERGY, not green energy CONSUMPTION imo. The standard for producing energy is more energy is released than was input to the overall system. Unless this is true, you have a power consumption system, not power production.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
