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Considering that most electronics built today are on multilayer PCB's it's impossible to fix them, not to mention the cost of fixing them is often quite a bit more than just purchasing a new one....
This is 2012, not 1972...
Every device is different. Every device can be re-manufactured and repaired.
For devices like MP3s recycling and consumer level battery replacement would probably be adequate. The point about costs is exactly what I meant by externalizing. Different devices have diff issues.
I mention batteries because that would be easy to fix and cheap. There is a mentality to design as cheap throw-aways.
Designing smartly and responsibly should not be tied to chronology.
Every device is different. Every device can be re-manufactured and repaired.
For devices like MP3s recycling and consumer level battery replacement would probably be adequate. The point about costs is exactly what I meant by externalizing. Different devices have diff issues.
I mention batteries because that would be easy to fix and cheap. There is a mentality to design as cheap throw-aways.
Designing smartly and responsibly should not be tied to chronology.
Hmmm, MP3's are digital media, how does one recycle it? One allocates space for an MP3, when no longer wanted one deletes the reference to this MP3 by removing a pointer in a table. I guess that one could say the space is recycled but to say it's re-manufactured? Ludicrous....
Do you even have a clue as to what a multi-layer PCB is? (which is what most electronic devices use nowadays and are NOT repairable)....
In all the pictures the OP posted I didn't see one that was piles of batteries. Outside of "fixing" some nicad batteries how does one fix AAA, AA, C, D and button batteries?
Agree that some devices can be re-manufactured but almost no-one wants obsolete electronics do they...
I guess you have a Betamax video recorder attached to your Black & White TV, jog with your Sony Walkman, place calls on your rotary phone and use a Hayes 2400 Baud modem to connect to the Internet, correct? And your computer system looks similar to this:
Miniaturization has come with a price and the price is you can't repair them....
Hmmm, MP3's are digital media, how does one recycle it? One allocates space for an MP3, when no longer wanted one deletes the reference to this MP3 by removing a pointer in a table. I guess that one could say the space is recycled but to say it's re-manufactured? Ludicrous....
Do you even have a clue as to what a multi-layer PCB is? (which is what most electronic devices use nowadays and are NOT repairable)....
In all the pictures the OP posted I didn't see one that was piles of batteries. Outside of "fixing" some nicad batteries how does one fix AAA, AA, C, D and button batteries?
Agree that some devices can be re-manufactured but almost no-one wants obsolete electronics do they...
I guess you have a Betamax video recorder attached to your Black & White TV, jog with your Sony Walkman, place calls on your rotary phone and use a Hayes 2400 Baud modem to connect to the Internet, correct? And your computer system looks similar to this:
Miniaturization has come with a price and the price is you can't repair them....
I was referring to an MP3 player, seriously (not a digital file format). Yes I am well aware what a Multilayer PCB is. I am not saying repair or reman everything. But batteries are an easy address. Most MP3 players donot have easily (consumer) replaceable batteries and most don't use any of the batteries you mentioned. They are "built-in". The battery has a life. With Lithium about 3-5 yrs, or much less depending on use. If the player works fine, but only needs a battery it doesn't make sense to throw it away.
Tech is great, but it is only a tool. If your tool does the job and you are happy with it it should be your choice to keep.
Actually plwhit, you are way off the mark w/ your assumptions (lol). Sorry you can't discuss reasonably w/o throwing red herrings everywhere.
I was referring to an MP3 player, seriously (not a digital file format).
Geez, just like a politician, don't listen to what I said, read my mind as to what I was thinking
I can just picture ignorant Chinese/Indian peasants sitting at a workbench disassembling these highly technical cell phones and MP3 players to take the batteries out
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Yes I am well aware what a Multilayer PCB is. I am not saying repair or reman everything. But batteries are an easy address. Most MP3 players donot have easily (consumer) replaceable batteries and most don't use any of the batteries you mentioned. They are "built-in". The battery has a life. With Lithium about 3-5 yrs, or much less depending on use. If the player works fine, but only needs a battery it doesn't make sense to throw it away.
I'll ask you again - I guess you have a Betamax video recorder attached to your Black & White TV, jog with your Sony Walkman, place calls on your rotary phone and use a Hayes 2400 Baud modem to connect to the Internet on your 386/12 Mhz computer, correct? I mean they all still work flawlessly.......
If the powers-that-be really wanted to have people to recycle batteries they would offer some type of cash award for bringing them into a recycle center wouldn't they? Same thing can be said for cell phones MP3 players and such, but they don't. Why? IT'S TOO MUCH OF A HASSLE.
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Tech is great, but it is only a tool. If your tool does the job and you are happy with it it should be your choice to keep.
Actually plwhit, you are way off the mark w/ your assumptions (lol). Sorry you can't discuss reasonably w/o throwing red herrings everywhere.
Methinks you who are the one who is way off the mark, it is basic human nature for most people to want to keep up with modern technology, very very few want "old" technology "just because it still works" I guess I was correct in the assumptions I made in the bolded question I asked you above. With your attitude you couldn't own anything but....
Soooo getting back on-topic why does America sell (AKA the OP "dump") e-waste on "poor" countries CDusr if it's not to make money? Where are all the American environmentalists to do this menial task if it means that citizens of other countries don't have to work disassembling American electronic trash for $6.00 US salary per day?
Does America sell their electronic trash overseas because these other countries can make money from the recycling?
And therein lies the key, MAKE MONEY. The way recycling has been sold to Americans "it's to save poor mother Earth" ~ which goes over like a lead balloon. Even an idiot knows recycling companies are making money from the labor of Americans who are dumb enough to parse their garbage for the ease of others doing the recycling....
Make it worth their while and Americans would do recycling but this pie-in-the-sky sob story of poisoning mother Earth if we don't is ludicrous....
Geez, just like a politician, don't listen to what I said, read my mind as to what I was thinking
I can just picture ignorant Chinese/Indian peasants sitting at a workbench disassembling these highly technical cell phones and MP3 players to take the batteries out
I'll ask you again - I guess you have a Betamax video recorder attached to your Black & White TV, jog with your Sony Walkman, place calls on your rotary phone and use a Hayes 2400 Baud modem to connect to the Internet on your 386/12 Mhz computer, correct? I mean they all still work flawlessly.......
If the powers-that-be really wanted to have people to recycle batteries they would offer some type of cash award for bringing them into a recycle center wouldn't they? Same thing can be said for cell phones MP3 players and such, but they don't. Why? IT'S TOO MUCH OF A HASSLE.
Methinks you who are the one who is way off the mark, it is basic human nature for most people to want to keep up with modern technology, very very few want "old" technology "just because it still works" I guess I was correct in the assumptions I made in the bolded question I asked you above. With your attitude you couldn't own anything but....
Soooo getting back on-topic why does America sell (AKA the OP "dump") e-waste on "poor" countries CDusr if it's not to make money? Where are all the American environmentalists to do this menial task if it means that citizens of other countries don't have to work disassembling American electronic trash for $6.00 US salary per day?
Does America sell their electronic trash overseas because these other countries can make money from the recycling?
And therein lies the key, MAKE MONEY. The way recycling has been sold to Americans "it's to save poor mother Earth" ~ which goes over like a lead balloon. Even an idiot knows recycling companies are making money from the labor of Americans who are dumb enough to parse their garbage for the ease of others doing the recycling....
Make it worth their while and Americans would do recycling but this pie-in-the-sky sob story of poisoning mother Earth if we don't is ludicrous....
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Originally Posted by CDusr
This is externalization of corporate profits.
Actually, the disposable mentality does need to be changed.This could be helped with a few basic regs and more programs like recycling. This disposable mentality has pretty much killed repair businesses also.
They design things financially and physically to be difficult to repair and to force you buying new ones. Most mp3 players have built in batteries, for instance.
From my first post you just didn't read. I am well aware of how the market works and why it is the way it is. That is what I was referring to. It is ALWAYS about money, but there are different models and methods with which to make money. Apparently you aren't getting it. Yes, they want you buying and consuming. I am fully aware people want new tech. You can design better though. (btw design also includes the market)
You started going off about mPCBs. Obviously PCBs are usually replaced not repaired. However, that is different from the device itself. I am not even saying it is always cost effective to do so, but there are places where little changes can make a difference. And there should be incentives to avoid these issues. Reclamation, recycling, reman etc... are certainly part of the process.
I will also say plenty of people have no issues getting repairs done and like keeping their favorite devices or passing them on. You seem to be dismissing savviness and desire for quality. They don't always want new. It should be a choice and not due to defects. (not talking no fails or no defects here, just reasonable levels)
This is the same issue that is building inferior electronics, that fail. If you design something so that it is very difficult to work on to save a few pennies in the end it creates a bigger issue. Laptops, PC's, tablets, netbooks, smartphones, etc.. do get repaired. Due to the cost and the fact they are designed so they can be.
Having programs for this w/ manufacturers, for example, encourages people to come back. Secondary markets can be made from the recycling and reman.
Goodwill is usually pretty good about taking older electronics btw. They can recycle also.
As to your bold comments, they are red herrings. Though if you have beta max recordings I am sure you would want a player. Plenty of musicians have much older information stored on old media. You can make some side money in old electronics from nostalgia markets, in addition to the other options mentioned. They have brought back old tech, like record players just so people can convert their media. You joke about old modems, but fax technology is still very much used via those methods. Has changed very little. Diebold memory cards are based on some "ancient tech".
Your views seem pretty narrow and you are missing market changes and opportunities, you are also missing my posts, apparently. (lol) You seem to be just assuming it is being sold as environmental. This has changed and hopefully will continue to do so. I suggest you do some tech market research in this area.
One of my computers consists of a set of strings and beads in a frame. Very handy for adding and subracting strings of numbers. The other is a graphite rod in a wood holder and a piece of paper. These even do multiplication, division, squares and square roots. Both work without electricity.
From my first post you just didn't read. I am well aware of how the market works and why it is the way it is. That is what I was referring to. It is ALWAYS about money, but there are different models and methods with which to make money. Apparently you aren't getting it. Yes, they want you buying and consuming. I am fully aware people want new tech. You can design better though. (btw design also includes the market)
You started going off about mPCBs. Obviously PCBs are usually replaced not repaired. However, that is different from the device itself. I am not even saying it is always cost effective to do so, but there are places where little changes can make a difference. And there should be incentives to avoid these issues. Reclamation, recycling, reman etc... are certainly part of the process.
Agree, all that's being done in other countries as the OP and others have shown (reread..... dump e-waste)
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I will also say plenty of people have no issues getting repairs done and like keeping their favorite devices or passing them on. You seem to be dismissing savviness and desire for quality. They don't always want new. It should be a choice and not due to defects. (not talking no fails or no defects here, just reasonable levels)
Like what? Lets see who replies and says they have passed their Betamax, rotary phone, B&W TV, Sony Walkman, Hayes modem, 8086 system, Polaroid camera and such on....
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This is the same issue that is building inferior electronics, that fail. If you design something so that it is very difficult to work on to save a few pennies in the end it creates a bigger issue. Laptops, PC's, tablets, netbooks, smartphones, etc.. do get repaired. Due to the cost and the fact they are designed so they can be.
I guess if you want to use a wheelbarrow to carry around a smartphone that can be easily worked on you make sense.....
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Having programs for this w/ manufacturers, for example, encourages people to come back. Secondary markets can be made from the recycling and reman.
Apple makes your statement ludicrous....
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Goodwill is usually pretty good about taking older electronics btw. They can recycle also.
No really? ~duh~
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As to your bold comments, they are red herrings. Though if you have beta max recordings I am sure you would want a player. Plenty of musicians have much older information stored on old media. You can make some side money in old electronics from nostalgia markets, in addition to the other options mentioned. They have brought back old tech, like record players just so people can convert their media. You joke about old modems, but fax technology is still very much used via those methods. Has changed very little. Diebold memory cards are based on some "ancient tech".
Actually no, if I have ancient degradable media I would want it converted at the earliest opportunity. Yup, as you said earlier, people jumped on the fact old media would degrade and seized the business opportunity to produce something that would convert to newer media.
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Your views seem pretty narrow and you are missing market changes and opportunities, you are also missing my posts, apparently. (lol) You seem to be just assuming it is being sold as environmental. This has changed and hopefully will continue to do so. I suggest you do some tech market research in this area.
Getting back to the OP (which you seem to not understand) America has seized opportunities, found customers who want our old obsolete electronics and conducted business....
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