Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I wonder why the .45-70 Government cartridge hasn't been mentioned...
It supposedly was designed for the government, and civilians joyfully adopted it!
Because that cartridge is EXPENSIVE
LOL
Hornady sells 45/70. It picked up popularity lately... alot of people are interested in it.
Imagine today's technology and taking the 45/70 and developing a free floated barrel with a different twist rate and style of rifling...
Could become the new 338 lapua. Long range thumper.
I wonder why the .45-70 Government cartridge hasn't been mentioned...
It supposedly was designed for the government, and civilians joyfully adopted it!
The old 45 70 has always attracted me. I would love to have a Sharps (a real one) in my rack. A rifle, not a carbine. We're I to have to be dropped into Grizzly country I would feel quite good with a Marlin Guide Gun slung on my back. I would certainly rather have that than any handgun for bear medicine. Or any dangerous large animal for that matter.
As to the other post about a Garand's legality for hunting NV limits capacity to 3 rounds for big game. However, a short stopped magazine would make a Garand legal. Just don't have any full capacity Mags on you while in the field. Same thing with a heavier chambered AR or an M1A. And the AR caliber cutoff is at .243. The 223/5.56 is illegal for big game here. Our deer run on the larger size. I had an experience with a buddy once who insisted his 22 250 would be the ultimate antelope rifle and much to my chagrin (and the poor antelope) he insisted on trying to prove it. It was a miserable and messy/waste failure.
The bullets just exploded on the shoulder with zero penetration. There's a reason the state starts caliber choice at 6mm up. I honestly feel the 243 to be THE cutoff point. Long ranging antelope (or even mule deer) starts at 270 for me. And beyond say maybe 400 yards I'd make a serious effort to get closer. I like a nice clean neck shot and dislike taking chances of wounding an animal. If I can't make it clean I won't take the shot.
The old 45 70 has always attracted me. I would love to have a Sharps (a real one) in my rack. A rifle, not a carbine. We're I to have to be dropped into Grizzly country I would feel quite good with a Marlin Guide Gun slung on my back. I would certainly rather have that than any handgun for bear medicine. Or any dangerous large animal for that matter.
As to the other post about a Garand's legality for hunting NV limits capacity to 3 rounds for big game. However, a short stopped magazine would make a Garand legal. Just don't have any full capacity Mags on you while in the field. Same thing with a heavier chambered AR or an M1A. And the AR caliber cutoff is at .243. The 223/5.56 is illegal for big game here. Our deer run on the larger size. I had an experience with a buddy once who insisted his 22 250 would be the ultimate antelope rifle and much to my chagrin (and the poor antelope) he insisted on trying to prove it. It was a miserable and messy/waste failure.
The bullets just exploded on the shoulder with zero penetration. There's a reason the state starts caliber choice at 6mm up. I honestly feel the 243 to be THE cutoff point. Long ranging antelope (or even mule deer) starts at 270 for me. And beyond say maybe 400 yards I'd make a serious effort to get closer. I like a nice clean neck shot and dislike taking chances of wounding an animal. If I can't make it clean I won't take the shot.
Is the 25x45 off limits? It shouldn't be if .243 is allowable
22 nosler MIGHT be illegal.... but is ballistically superior to 223/5.56
Is the 25x45 off limits? It shouldn't be if .243 is allowable
22 nosler MIGHT be illegal.... but is ballistically superior to 223/5.56
I'm not familiar with 25x45 but I'm sure it would be legal if it meets or exceeds the 243. NDOW just uses the 243 as a minimum baseline. To my knowledge there is no 22 cal cartridge allowable for mule deer or any other big game. The rationale being that a big game round should be capable of enough power on target to take an animal cleanly with a behind the shoulder , heart/lung hit. "Clean" being the operative word. Ball ammo is also not allowed in any caliber. (Though it happens.
The 270 and 30 06 are probably the most used chamber inge around here with 308 being right in there as well. Interestingly the 30 06 has been the starting point for most popular former wildcats turned commercial. 270, 25 06, 308, all the way down to 243 all started life in the 06 gene pool. YE ol' 06 is arguably the single most popular and successful military cartridge adapted for civilian use. I would argue in favor of that view.
I'm not familiar with 25x45 but I'm sure it would be legal if it meets or exceeds the 243. NDOW just uses the 243 as a minimum baseline. To my knowledge there is no 22 cal cartridge allowable for mule deer or any other big game. The rationale being that a big game round should be capable of enough power on target to take an animal cleanly with a behind the shoulder , heart/lung hit. "Clean" being the operative word. Ball ammo is also not allowed in any caliber. (Though it happens.
The 270 and 30 06 are probably the most used chamber inge around here with 308 being right in there as well. Interestingly the 30 06 has been the starting point for most popular former wildcats turned commercial. 270, 25 06, 308, all the way down to 243 all started life in the 06 gene pool. YE ol' 06 is arguably the single most popular and successful military cartridge adapted for civilian use. I would argue in favor of that view.
Ball ammo isn't allowed? I'm assuming due to lead? That's odd... especially to someone who used to hunt in NY home of the most ridiculous gun and hunting laws.
Ball ammo isn't allowed? I'm assuming due to lead? That's odd... especially to someone who used to hunt in NY home of the most ridiculous gun and hunting laws.
No ball ammo is not allowed for big game. It does not have sufficient shock factor for performance standards for mule deer, elk , antelope etc. The intent is to avoid wounding and losing game. It's a rule I actually happen to support. I have seen the results of use of ball ammo on deer and such. Ball ammo is not for hunting. On a standard heart shot it tend to just zip through and the animal can run for miles before bleeding out. Ball is actually designed with less wound trauma in mind. Hauge Accord rules of warfare. I use either Core Lokt or Ballistic Tip in 150 gr for mule deer and antelope. I go up to between 180 and 220 gr for elk. Win SXT or Silvertip.
Personally I agree with not allowing military ammo for big game. Yes, with proper shot placement it will suffice but there are to many "hhunters" who aren't that proficient. To much wounded and lost game. Flabbergasted "hunters" who just watch the animal they just hit , solidly even, disappear over the ridge line, and they don't even try and track it. Deer are tough. Ball ammo does not put enough power on target to reliably put down a big muley, let alone an elk.
Terminal ballistics for ball ammo do not make the cut. Proper ammo with bullets designed for hunting is the proper and responsible choice. I won't even use ball in 5.56 for coyotes. I use VMax or Ballistic Tip. Soft point at the least. The intent behind the rule against ball ammo is a good one. I personally totally agree with it.
Yeah, I have an old Springfield 45-70, and an 1886 Winchester take-down. Have to keep ammo carefully segregated, as the 86 can take a good bit more pressure. The 86 I generally load with the old Lyman 293 grain, flat point, and I take a marker and color the bullet tip black if I load them "hotter" than the Springfield should have.
45-70 is not expensive to shoot if you cast bullets and handload. If you buy factory ammo, you either are stuck with the old 405 grain soft point (my 2 are old enough I don't want to shoot jacketed in them anyway) loaded light to be OK in Springfields, or, you have various custom loaders, some using cast bullets, most of this is loaded "Gopher Baroque" for recent Marlins and the Ruger #1.
The 86 is light enough that I don't load anywhere near what the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual lists as "max" for 1886.
I figure good Hardcastle bullets and a 45 70 go together like a bucket of hot wings and a pitcher of cold beer. Same with YE ol' 45 Colt. Got a buddy who has a Sharps repro in 45 70, a carbine, that I've been load tinkering with. Been using FFFg black powder at original got specs mostly just for a period feel, though the gun is smokeless rated. I would dearly love to have a real Sharps rifle. Buffalo gun.
The carbine is a hoot. We've been long ranging it on a 3x3 piece of plate. Can gong it at 500 yards handily. BOOM it goes, lay the piece down, light a smoke, pick up the bios and by then hear a satisfying BONG. LOL Tons of low pressure fun. I'd be ok with a Ruger NO 1 in this chamber in too. Add some more modern loadings to the mix. The 45 70 just has an irresistible attraction for me. A true legendary cartrige.
From the Sharps, the Springfield Trapdoor, Rem Rolling Block all the way up to now.
Years ago I had a modern Marlin Model 95 lever action .45-70. It was a great gun, fun to shoot, more of a push than actual recoil, but my range estimation skills were sadly lacking. Since the 405 grain bullet dropped 13.5 inches at a hundred yards, accurate range estimation is critical. After missing a deer several times, I traded it for a Remington Model 742 in .30-06. With 165 grain soft point bullets, it was much more forgiving of my poor ranging skills!
Even though I quit hunting several years ago, I still have that gun.
When my Dad was a kid in the 1920s, he bought two "surplus" 1873 Springfield Trapdoor rifles and one .30-40 Krag for $1.25 each. I still have one of the trapdoors with its bayonet.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
