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I have a 70's Gun Digest with an article in it with the above title. I think that today everybody in the know realizes with current gats and ammo, the .32 ACP is a rather small gat for serious use, if you choose it, you should sit down and write yourself a letter as to why you decided to go with that, and leave that letter where heirs and assigns can find it. (Notwithstanding that, the .32 ACP Winchester Silvertip round, in those gats which will cycle reliably with it, has a decent track record for stops.) Likewise the 9X19 is, given proper ammo with advanced technology bullets, is generally considered more than enough for any reasonable use it can be put to.
But at least in my mind the .380 ACP is sort of in the grey zone. I think in the bad old days when all you could get ATC was a FMJ RN bullet of about 90 grains, the .380 was likely to be found wanting for any serious use.
But I was at my FLGS this afternoon, and saw quite a bit of advanced ammo for the 380. Stuff by respected makers who I would like to think would not BS potential customers about what it can and can't do.
Of course the gat you use that ammo in will matter, I have for example a Beretta Cheetah and a first model Ruger LCP. These are starkly different in size and mastering the obvious the Cheetah will be easier to hit with and the longer barrel will get more performance out of the same ammo. On the other hand the Cheetah is not that much smaller than a Commander model 1911, which can be had in more serious calibers. Assuming you ascribe to the idea that it is indeed a "Pocket Rocket", the LCP provides the .380 in a very compact package, although with restrictions on magazine capacity, sight radius, and reliance on a good firm hold to cycle reliably. There ain't no free lunch.
The smaller an automatic is for the power of the round it fires, the more it depends on a really good firm hold for proper cycling. The Cheetah should be more forgiving of a less than optimal hold driven by tiredness, wet hands, whatever. For some people with compromised grip strength something like the Cheetah might be a decent choice.
I can say with authority that my 380s will take out a beer can with one shot. I have never put them to more serious use.
Comments? Anyone have first hand experience on targets other than beer cans?
I watched some ballistic tests, I think on Brassfletcher, where some of the new ammo, defensive, did fairly well. I don’t think a .380 is as underwhelming as once believed.
My son has a S&W EZ in .380 and he loves it. As he progresses he may step it up to a 9mm.
For me, I like my .38/.357 S&W revolvers or my .45acp. Mainly because I already have the loading supplies for them.
I think .380 is a bit of a dud. It’s appealing because you can have light, simple blowback pistols chambered in it, but as a defensive weapon I have questions. Bullets fly a bit slow by auto loader standards to rely on good expansion from bullets, and when you get to this class of ballistics, you either go revolver for fuss-free use and better expansion of bullets, or 9mm since they are so common and popular that even itty bitty pistols which need a locking mechanism are cheap.
LOL, I love these discussions. A .380 is a dud, really. I know for a fact I wouldn't want to be shot with a cheap 22lr let alone a .380 but hey we all consider things differently.
I have a 70's Gun Digest with an article in it with the above title. I think that today everybody in the know realizes with current gats and ammo, the .32 ACP is a rather small gat for serious use, if you choose it, you should sit down and write yourself a letter as to why you decided to go with that, and leave that letter where heirs and assigns can find it. (Notwithstanding that, the .32 ACP Winchester Silvertip round, in those gats which will cycle reliably with it, has a decent track record for stops.) Likewise the 9X19 is, given proper ammo with advanced technology bullets, is generally considered more than enough for any reasonable use it can be put to.
But at least in my mind the .380 ACP is sort of in the grey zone. I think in the bad old days when all you could get ATC was a FMJ RN bullet of about 90 grains, the .380 was likely to be found wanting for any serious use.
But I was at my FLGS this afternoon, and saw quite a bit of advanced ammo for the 380. Stuff by respected makers who I would like to think would not BS potential customers about what it can and can't do.
Of course the gat you use that ammo in will matter, I have for example a Beretta Cheetah and a first model Ruger LCP. These are starkly different in size and mastering the obvious the Cheetah will be easier to hit with and the longer barrel will get more performance out of the same ammo. On the other hand the Cheetah is not that much smaller than a Commander model 1911, which can be had in more serious calibers. Assuming you ascribe to the idea that it is indeed a "Pocket Rocket", the LCP provides the .380 in a very compact package, although with restrictions on magazine capacity, sight radius, and reliance on a good firm hold to cycle reliably. There ain't no free lunch.
The smaller an automatic is for the power of the round it fires, the more it depends on a really good firm hold for proper cycling. The Cheetah should be more forgiving of a less than optimal hold driven by tiredness, wet hands, whatever. For some people with compromised grip strength something like the Cheetah might be a decent choice.
I can say with authority that my 380s will take out a beer can with one shot. I have never put them to more serious use.
Comments? Anyone have first hand experience on targets other than beer cans?
You make some excellent points about the improvements in defensive ammo. The .380 has certainly benefitted from this.
The first gun I ever carried was an old .380 Llama I borrowed from my father for a cross country trip when I was 18. When driving, it rode in the console, and when stopped for gas, food, etc., it was carried Mexican style. The only ammo available back then was FMJ. Good quality self-defense hollow points were non-existent, so I made due with what I had. I shot this gun quite extensively over the years, but I was never comfortable with it.
Now, even with better quality ammo, I won’t carry a .380, as I think there are better choices available. I’ve mentioned here before that small semi’s are generally the most unreliable of all handguns, they are difficult for most people to shoot well, and there are much better choices available. YMMV.
I guess that's my main point in posting, that 380 ACP ammo has been upgraded considerably in the last couple of decades at least - and BTW you can get Hornady Critical Defense for your 9X17 Makarov now as well. I want to point out that not every gat out there is going to feed these reliably. You have to try them in your gat. They are expensive but you need to shoot up most of a box of ammo, not just one magazine worth, to really *know* they are going to work in your gat. While a wheelgun won't have feeding problems as such, small powerful revolvers have been known to have bullets "back out" of the case due to the sharp recoil pulse, so you have to test your ammo in the revolver as well. Like I said before, no free lunch. A bullet that backs out till it's proud of the cylinder will tie a revolver up worse than most automatic jams.
If you need a very small gat, something like the Ruger LCP is quite small and I would say with good ammo ought to be a decent stopper. I do have both the LCP I and a LCR in 9mm on hand. The revolver is thicker through the cylinder, of course, but they are nearly the same size. The LCR has only 5 shots and I have never seen a speedloader for it, it uses a full moon clip and maybe you could put a spare full moon clip into some sort of pouch, but again I have not seen anything.
People with compromised grip strength may want to look at the Berettas, particularly those with tip-up barrels.
I guess that's my main point in posting, that 380 ACP ammo has been upgraded considerably in the last couple of decades at least - and BTW you can get Hornady Critical Defense for your 9X17 Makarov now as well. I want to point out that not every gat out there is going to feed these reliably. You have to try them in your gat. They are expensive but you need to shoot up most of a box of ammo, not just one magazine worth, to really *know* they are going to work in your gat. While a wheelgun won't have feeding problems as such, small powerful revolvers have been known to have bullets "back out" of the case due to the sharp recoil pulse, so you have to test your ammo in the revolver as well. Like I said before, no free lunch. A bullet that backs out till it's proud of the cylinder will tie a revolver up worse than most automatic jams.
If you need a very small gat, something like the Ruger LCP is quite small and I would say with good ammo ought to be a decent stopper. I do have both the LCP I and a LCR in 9mm on hand. The revolver is thicker through the cylinder, of course, but they are nearly the same size. The LCR has only 5 shots and I have never seen a speedloader for it, it uses a full moon clip and maybe you could put a spare full moon clip into some sort of pouch, but again I have not seen anything.
People with compromised grip strength may want to look at the Berettas, particularly those with tip-up barrels.
A moon clip is the fastest way to reload a revolver. Carry a spare in a pocket or a speed loader pouch, and you’re good to go.
I don’t think that 9mm LCR will work with a speed loader, as it uses the moon clip to properly headspace the rounds, and speed loaders and moon clip guns generally aren’t compatible.
I use Hornady critical defense ammo in my Ruger Security .380 Lite Rack. 15 rounds in the mag and one in the pipe. Way less recoil than my 9mm and easier to keep on target. I added a Houge “beavertail” grip which allows me a better hold on my firearm when shooting. (I have small hands). It’s not a tiny gun, but easy to concealed carry and feels good in my hand. I’ve fired about 500 rounds through it with only two failure to eject events one of which occurred during a mag dump when I first got the pistol.
A moon clip is the fastest way to reload a revolver. Carry a spare in a pocket or a speed loader pouch, and you’re good to go.
I don’t think that 9mm LCR will work with a speed loader, as it uses the moon clip to properly headspace the rounds, and speed loaders and moon clip guns generally aren’t compatible.
You would just have to handle the full moon clips that the LCR comes with. They are kind of "floppy" in that they don't hold the rounds firmly, there is a compromise here between being able to load and unload the full moon clip without gorilla-level hand strength, and the overall rigidity of the full moon clip when it's not in the cylinder.
BTW I think the 9mm LCR headspaces on the mouth of the brass just like any other 9mm. You *can* shoot it without the full moon clips, but then you are stuck pushing the empties out with a pen or some such tool, providing they won't just shake free.
Maybe some mechanical genius in the aftermarket will make something better. I know I like certain aftermarket magazines for my Ruger .22 Automatic a good bit better than the factory magazine.
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When home in AZ….
