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Piggybacking off a conversation me and a few guys had on the North Carolina board:
Today I did ask some people at work what they thought of the region. Very small sample size, but here it is, obviously paraphrased:
Transplant from New Jersey, Afro-Latino male, mid-20s: "This isn't really the South, because there's nothing really southern about here."
Transplant from Texas, Black Female, mid-30s: "This isn't the South. People in this area are a mix of North and South and don't know what they wanna be, but I wouldn't call this the South. Texas is the South."
Transplant from Pittsburgh, Black Male, early-20s: "This is absolutely the South. I've never been anywhere as southern as here. West Virginia is cuculturally northern compared to here".
Transplant from Harrisburg Penna, White Male, early-20s: "This isn't the South to me. My dad is from West Virginia and he calls this the South, but I dont. Have you been to South Carolina? Now that's the South!"
Native, Black Female, mid-40s: "I wouldn't call this the South because there's no southern hospitality here."
Native, Black Female, mid-20s: "No, this isn't the South. What's 'south' about here?"
Native, White Male, early-30s: "This is the South. Technically its the northernmost southern state. I would definitely call us the South."
Native, Black Male, late-teens: "This is the South. I mean, it ain't like 'Georgia south', but....this ain't the North! You go up north, you know this is the South."
Native, Black Male, early-30s: "I guess technically you could call us the South. I don't personally agree or consider myself a southerner, because when you go down south for real, that's nothing like here. Some people might call it the South. One state away is Maryland, that's up north. To me it's the best of both worlds, but I don't think we're in the South."
Native, Black Male, early-30s: "Yeah, this is the South. If you go up north, you know this is the South. I do consider myself a southerner and this area as being of the South."
Native, White Female, mid-20s: "Oh yeah, this is the South. I don't understand why so many people say we aren't."
5/11 surveyed considered Hampton Roads the South, and four of the five are natives. I'm going to keep asking and trying to discover the climate here, the larger the sample size. It seems to hold true that most people here don't identify as southerners or this area as being in the South, including some transplants, but again, I find it unbelievable that anybody who's lived here for any measurable amount of time has never heard a Tidewater native identify as southern. As a conservative estimate, I'd say a good ~35% of people here is a strong estimate of those who identify as southerners/Tidewater as the South. I'd also say that many people who don't consider themselves southerners seem to be confused as to why they actually take that stance. I don't get the sense that people think the South is a negative association, just that people in urban Virginia see the South as being something truly different, in their eyes...
Nobody considers themselves northerners, though. And one if the guys I work with specifically talked about North Carolina as somewhere that was heavily southern. Not in a condescending tone, just comparing and contrasting there to here. Maybe calling urban VA "light southern" is the best descriptive...
Updated opinions from the Hampton Roads forum are welcome!
"No, this isn't the South. What's 'south' about here?"
Murk.. Because of the large transplanted military population, Hampton Roads is not a uniformly Southern culture, or deep South. But to me, it is indisputably native Southern.
Three main parts to it's Southern pedigree:
It's below the Mason-Dixon, which is most basic, time-honored geographic recognition of the South.
Hampton Roads is within the Bible Belt, which is the South's uniquely high church attendance rate. I'd also submit bcuz of CBN & Regent University, Pat Robertson's cultural influence makes it solid Southern Bible Belt..
Hampton Roads/Tidewater also lies within the American Black Belt. Region with uniquely high African-American populations (running across the South, from eastern Maryland thru Mississippi).
I used to live in Hampton near the former Robert E Lee Elementary.. c'mon, 757 is the South.
Peace.
Piggybacking off a conversation me and a few guys had on the North Carolina board:
Today I did ask some people at work what they thought of the region. Very small sample size, but here it is, obviously paraphrased:
Transplant from New Jersey, Afro-Latino male, mid-20s: "This isn't really the South, because there's nothing really southern about here."
Transplant from Texas, Black Female, mid-30s: "This isn't the South. People in this area are a mix of North and South and don't know what they wanna be, but I wouldn't call this the South. Texas is the South."
Transplant from Pittsburgh, Black Male, early-20s: "This is absolutely the South. I've never been anywhere as southern as here. West Virginia is cuculturally northern compared to here".
Transplant from Harrisburg Penna, White Male, early-20s: "This isn't the South to me. My dad is from West Virginia and he calls this the South, but I dont. Have you been to South Carolina? Now that's the South!"
Native, Black Female, mid-40s: "I wouldn't call this the South because there's no southern hospitality here."
Native, Black Female, mid-20s: "No, this isn't the South. What's 'south' about here?"
Native, White Male, early-30s: "This is the South. Technically its the northernmost southern state. I would definitely call us the South."
Native, Black Male, late-teens: "This is the South. I mean, it ain't like 'Georgia south', but....this ain't the North! You go up north, you know this is the South."
Native, Black Male, early-30s: "I guess technically you could call us the South. I don't personally agree or consider myself a southerner, because when you go down south for real, that's nothing like here. Some people might call it the South. One state away is Maryland, that's up north. To me it's the best of both worlds, but I don't think we're in the South."
Native, Black Male, early-30s: "Yeah, this is the South. If you go up north, you know this is the South. I do consider myself a southerner and this area as being of the South."
Native, White Female, mid-20s: "Oh yeah, this is the South. I don't understand why so many people say we aren't."
5/11 surveyed considered Hampton Roads the South, and four of the five are natives. I'm going to keep asking and trying to discover the climate here, the larger the sample size. It seems to hold true that most people here don't identify as southerners or this area as being in the South, including some transplants, but again, I find it unbelievable that anybody who's lived here for any measurable amount of time has never heard a Tidewater native identify as southern. As a conservative estimate, I'd say a good ~35% of people here is a strong estimate of those who identify as southerners/Tidewater as the South. I'd also say that many people who don't consider themselves southerners seem to be confused as to why they actually take that stance. I don't get the sense that people think the South is a negative association, just that people in urban Virginia see the South as being something truly different, in their eyes...
Nobody considers themselves northerners, though. And one if the guys I work with specifically talked about North Carolina as somewhere that was heavily southern. Not in a condescending tone, just comparing and contrasting there to here. Maybe calling urban VA "light southern" is the best descriptive...
Updated opinions from the Hampton Roads forum are welcome!
This is like a NYC vs LA thread by a different name. It has been done too many times on C-D to count.
Being a Northerner is overrated. Lets start there. It is cool when you're somewhere else, but when you're actually in the North, which definitions vary, but basically anything North of Virginia life it is what it is. I don't even consider where I'm from to be the North. I think the North stops somewhere in Pennsylvania. Some may feel pressured to give into that whole "North" thing but, culturally, they call it the Midwest for a reason. Some go as far as to question whether Pittsburgh is North, East Coast, or Midwest. I'd say it is a nice place where all of those things come together.
So I don't consider myself to be a Northerner, maybe a Midwesterner, not sure. Don't really consider myself to be anything and I think the beauty of the Midwest is that you do not have to conform to any group think such as the parochial regionalism that seems to be the curse of this country. I don't think any other country deals with this the way that Americans seem to enjoy being burdened with.
I have encountered natives that consider themselves to be Southerners.
This may be who you encounter. When I encounter people that were born in raised in New York, they definitely consider themselves to be Northerners, even though they've been here for a while. When I encounter people that are from where I'm from, not so much. But then again Midwesterners, that is a label that people from outside of the Midwest apply to us more so than a regional identity. We don't really consider ourselves to be anything other than people that are from one place, live in another.
It seems like you would prefer for Hampton Roads to self-identify as Southern, at least natives nothing you can really do about outsiders. This isn't New York, where you self-identify as a New Yorker regardless of where you're actually from. People lose their identity to become part of the machine of New York as soon as possible. The place just has that strong of an identity. But that doesn't make it better. Were I there instead of here, I would never be a New Yorker. I don't care if I lived there 50 years, but that's just me.
I'm not impressed with a place, I'm impressed with people. The place is a just a reflection and a symptom of the people. That is how it should be anyway. If the demographics and make up of the people change, the place inevitably changes with it. But you will always find some idea of what a place once was, just the way that it is.
I grew up in Tidewater, and live in South Carolina. Yes, Tidewater is the south, especially the areas without all the transplants that have made it a melting pot.
Murk.. Because of the large transplanted military population, Hampton Roads is not a uniformly Southern culture, or deep South. But to me, it is indisputably native Southern.
Three main parts to it's Southern pedigree:
It's below the Mason-Dixon, which is most basic, time-honored geographic recognition of the South.
Hampton Roads is within the Bible Belt, which is the South's uniquely high church attendance rate. I'd also submit bcuz of CBN & Regent University, Pat Robertson's cultural influence makes it solid Southern Bible Belt..
Hampton Roads/Tidewater also lies within the American Black Belt. Region with uniquely high African-American populations (running across the South, from eastern Maryland thru Mississippi).
I used to live in Hampton near the former Robert E Lee Elementary.. c'mon, 757 is the South.
Peace.
Ok so by your definition, Maryland, Missouri, Delaware, and West Virginia are also southern. I'm only saying this because those other states are often not included as southern even though they hold much of the same features you mentioned, especially Missouri.
Ok so by your definition, Maryland, Missouri, Delaware, and West Virginia are also southern. I'm only saying this because those other states are often not included as southern even though they hold much of the same features you mentioned..
Ian, hi.. Maryland is a former slave state, below the Mason-Dixon. It is a Border State within the South (the Mason-Dixon isn't fluid).
MO, & DE are also Border States.. mixes of North & South, but not technically within the traditional South.
I lived in eastern Maryland for several years, & consider that area: Snow Hill, Ocean City, Berlin, etc. to be culturally Southern. Lots of rural area, large Black populations. Characteristics of the agrarian South..
Delaware was/is a mixed Border State, Northern county is culturally different than it's southern-most county Sussex (slower, lower Delaware). The fact that MD & Delaware were slave-holding societies, Maryland's history as an Old South colony, etc can be easily verified with basic research. It's not really a subjective idea, or based on our individual opinions.. I've spent a lot of time in Maryland, & Delaware & dig their histories.
West Virginia is a unique place, not really a Border State, it's more of a separate Appalachian society, different than the Southern/Tidewater culture of eastern VA, MD, lower DE, and different than most contemporary Northern states..
take care, peace.
I consider Delaware a strictly northeastern state, Maryland to be a Mid Atlantic state with slightly more northeastern characteristics than southeastern. Virginia, including Tidewater, I consider a mostly southeastern state with some Mid Atlantic characteristics in the cities. West Virginia is a weird one- as another poster said, it’s a strictly Appalachian State but is most culturally similar to the southeast than the northeast or Mid Atlantic.
I don't consider Hampton Roads "southern," because there are a lot of transplants here from all over.
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