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I got to thinking, this article's authors assertions that "Jews economically benifited from the nazi economy" was so preposterious, so outragously nonsensical, as to get me thinking...
So I did a bit of research, my instincts proved correct.
Mark Edward Weber (b. Portland, Oregon, October 9, 1951) is the director of the Institute for Historical Review, an American Holocaust denial organization based in southern California.
IN turn, the IHR is described as "being an antisemitic "pseudo-scholarly body"[1] with links to neo-Nazi organizations, ...primary purpose is to disseminate views denying key facts of Nazism and the genocide of Jews and others." Yeah, anyone still want to discuss the merits of this article? OP - check your sources in future posts.
Angorlee is really off his game. He's supposed to be in here by now sticking up for people like Weber and David Irving (whose name cannot be far from the above subject or the basic topic), giving them cred they do not deserve.
If the founders of America, or any president since, had perceived (rightly or wrongly) the blacks as being a credible and imminent threat to the economic or social well being of the Republic, they would have been perfectly amenable to removing them by the most facile method. Ovens, if it came to that. For the good of the American people. That's what the government is there for: to ameliorate any such threats.
The Americans exterminated quite a few Indian non-humans, but unlike Germany, there was plenty of unproductive land they could be forced to march onto (without even the comforts of cattle cars to transport them), so there were alternatives to extermination.
The article is interesting in the same terms as Mein Kampf is interesting, but I was never a fan of revisionist history, or propaganda. Lets be very clear here, the purpose of the article is to justify Nazism, not to justify the nazi economic system.
By ignoring important facts, or purposely distorting them, or (in terms of saying stuff like "Jews benifited economically), outright lying, it is a baseless document in arguing the benifits of the German economic system. If you wish I can write a list:
Failure to indicate that the nazi economy was primarily based on increasing the German War Machine,
Failure to indicate that Aryan German Citizens benifited economically at the cost of its Jewish Citizens,
Failure to indicate that spending exceeded nazi growth of the economy all throughout the nazi years, so that by 1939 Germany was spending twice as much as they were producing
Failure to indicate that wages were decreasing in Germany,
Failure to indicate that the nazi state experienced shortages of basic items all during the 30s,
Failure to indicate that the lowering of unemployment was due to conscription into the German military (as early as 1935).
Failure to indicate that the German state was running massive deficits
Failure to indicate that the german economy was subsided by nation plundering even before the start of WW2 (in it's "annexation" of bordering provinces)
The article is garbage, written be a neo-nazi, filled with half truths and distortions.
The bolded red sound EXACTLY what we are taught in school,half truths and distortions..
Well ;if you give me the nations incoem and total control and you are willig to accpet my orders or else then I can put you to work with a shovel and control prices. Just don't open your mouth or else.Of course i will place mnay in youth camps and other in military.
The bolded red sound EXACTLY what we are taught in school,half truths and distortions..
Sir, history has made it's undisputable judgement - Nazism, not only the people (Nazi's), but the government choice itself, is a crime on humanity. That's the topic you wanted to discuss, lets stay on topic or move on.
And, no, the holocaust was not "half truths and distortions".
If the founders of America, or any president since, had perceived (rightly or wrongly) the blacks as being a credible and imminent threat to the economic or social well being of the Republic, they would have been perfectly amenable to removing them by the most facile method. Ovens, if it came to that. For the good of the American people. That's what the government is there for: to ameliorate any such threats.
The Americans exterminated quite a few Indian non-humans, but unlike Germany, there was plenty of unproductive land they could be forced to march onto (without even the comforts of cattle cars to transport them), so there were alternatives to extermination.
haha, you start any post and that guy will try to turn it around into a "US is evil" thread. I have seen him do it in travel threads of all things. It's off topic, this thread is about nazi economy. Just ignore him, don't play his game.
First off, thankfully others took the time to realize what IHR.org really is, basically a neo-Nazi, antisemite front masking as a research institute. Anyone who is at work with standard "safe browse" tech won't be able to click on the link as it is blocked as a raciost/hate site. I have no problem discussing Hitlers and the Nazis policies in general terms about things like economics, but to consider IHR a valid source is ludicrous. Notice how in typical fashion for these types of posts, the OP simply provides a link and occasional jab, not any actual attempt to make or defend a point.
Though onto the Nazi "economic miracle":
The only "economic miracle" the Nazi's managed to achieve was on paper. The most often cited portion of the miracle is the reversal of the unemployment numbers, however this does not account for how it was done:
1. Women were no longer counted in the numbers of unemployed from the beginning of the Nazi state.
2. All workers were forced into national employment pools and were then assigned work. The trade and labor unions were dissolved and one could not quit their job if they wanted to, only appeal to the labor board for a new one. Anyone who refused to work at the job they were assigned was stripped of citizenship and state support and consequently no longer counted as "unemployed".
3. Public works projects such as the completion of the Autobahns and building of factories soaked up large amounts of workers on a temporary basis.
4. Two events happened in 1935 that had a major impact on unemployment in Germany:
a. Jews were stripped of citizenship and were forced out of the labor pool to be replaced by Germans. They were no longer counted in the employment statistics and the jobs that they were forced to vacate were filled by Germans from the labor pools.
b. The Nazi's restarted conscription, which pulled large numbers of unemployed into the military service.
5. The re-armament campaign kicked into high gear in 1936 and continued to further sop up the numbers of unemployed.
6. Farmers and their families were tied to their land in a version of petty serfdom. No longer could the farmers child leave the farm to find work in the cities. He could either join the military or work on the farm even if his labor was not needed.
All together, the Nazi's did in fact lower unemployment to extremely low levels; from 6 million in 1933 to 300,000 by 1939. Their actions earned them wide ranging support among Germans who were looking for any sign of hope coming out of WW1 and the Depression. Even those who had communist sympathys, for instance certain factory workers, were now firmly believers in the Nazi system.
However, it wasn't just the manipulation of the numbers; removing women, removing Jews, tieing farmers to their land, etc. that comprise the greatest counter to the myth of the "economic miracle".
In 1928 German government revenue was $10 billion on expenses of $12 billion and a national debt of $7 billion.
In 1939 German government revenue was $15 billion on expenses of $30 billion and a national debt of $40 billion.
Germany had enjoyed a trade surplus in the 20's and early 30's that was completely erased and turned into a deficit by 1939, largely owing to the import of raw materials to support the re-armament campaign. This deficit meant that the Germans were rapidly losing hard currency like gold in order to continue the re-armament campaign. Furthering the issue was the fact that Germany imported 33% of its critical raw materials, an amount that had increased throughout the 1930's. By 1939, constrained by their lack of foreign currency reserves and hard currency, Germany faced dwindling supplies of key raw materials including copper and lead, which were down to a two month supply and curtailing the re-armament program.
Wages when adjusted for inflation had not increased at all from 1928 to 1938.
Industrial output in 1939, while higher, was only a scant 10% greater then it had been in 1928 before the Depression, with all of the increase attributable solely to arms production.
Production of consumer goods had fallen from 25% of the German economy in the early 30's to barely 17% by 1939. Consumption of food products decreased throughout this time; wheat bread, milk, eggs, meat, bacon, fish, vegetables, sugar, fruit and beer consumption all decreased, with the only increases being in rye bread, cheese and potatoes. Comparatively in 1937, Germans were eating less and a much lower variety then they had been in 1927.
The Nazi's attempted to control these issues through the institution of production quotas and price controls that worked to mask the precipice that their economy was perched on. While it is evident they set out to create a pseudo-socialist war economy, by the time 1939 rolled around, war and the spoils it would bring became increasingly necessary or the economy would have unravelled under its own weight.
The only "miracle" the Nazi's managed to produce was a psycholigical one where the average German believed that they were better under the Nazi's, or at the very least things would be worse if it were not for the Nazi's. By all real measures, the Nazi's were exceedingly poor economists and the German people were no better than they were in the Weimar years. The difference being, the average German believed they were better and this gave Hitler and the Nazi's all the power they needed.
I have read post after post from you blaming Obama and "liberals" for every evil in this country.
This topic is not about Obama and one glance should have told you that.
Inflation maybe rising in this country, but to compare it to the inflation during the Weimar Republic in Germany is absurd. Comparing Obama to Hitler is a "scrape the bottom of the barrel" argument.
Ludwig von Mises whose article you cite is neither a reputable or mainstream economist. Its kind of like comparing the contents of the National Enquirer with the New York Times. Austrian economics is a viewpoint held by the barest number of economists in the country/world. Von Mises lacks credibility because of it.
Please don't insult those of in the history forum with this kind of a post. I'll encourage the host to move this topic to where it belongs---Politics.
My post did not make it about Obama, just noting the mistakes of repeating history by the current administration economically speaking.
Keynesian economics is a historical proven failure (just look around the Western world for proof). One cannot deny the success of Austrian economics for the time period discussed. To do so is to do exactly that which you have accused of me, turning a historical discussion political.
I would suggest you follow your own advice when you demand a poster not insult this forum.
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