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Old 05-25-2015, 10:12 PM
 
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Is there a good documentary, book, whatever that goes in depth about Native American warfare before the whites showed up?

Everything is so politically correct. It's like there can't be a book or documentary about Native Americans that doesn't start out with "They were a beautiful, peaceful people; caretakers of the land..."

Where can I find some factual history not busting at the seams with political correctness/white guilt?
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Old 05-26-2015, 05:09 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
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Those are really hard to find, not because of political correctness but because of the way most groups/tribes recorded their history.

Most had an oral tradition and many didn't go back very many generations.

An example would be the Comanche. It's generally accepted that they were/are an offshoot of the Mountain Shoshone who migrated, on foot, to the Plains where they acquired horses. Non of their oral traditions recorded either event.

Even more recent events are just now having more information found. For decades, actually over 100 years, there were questions about the Little Big Horn. Still are, actually.

There were no survivors with Custer and the tribes were, understandably, hesitant to say much about it. A few years ago the Cheyenne basically said, "Hey, here's some stuff we've known since 1876 but haven't mentioned yet." Coming out then was how Custer died. According to the Cheyenne's stories a young woman named Buffalo Calf Road Woman/Girl Who Saved Her Brother knocked Custer from his horse and struck a fatal blow (he had two recorded wounds, one in the head and one in the chest as well as a small amount of post-mortem mutilation).
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Old 05-26-2015, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
11,110 posts, read 9,821,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madison999 View Post
Is there a good documentary, book, whatever that goes in depth about Native American warfare before the whites showed up?

Everything is so politically correct. It's like there can't be a book or documentary about Native Americans that doesn't start out with "They were a beautiful, peaceful people; caretakers of the land..."

Where can I find some factual history not busting at the seams with political correctness/white guilt?
You could start with Charles Mann's 1491. It's exactly as it sounds - a book about people in the New World before the arrival of Columbus. Among the theses it explores are the ideas that the Pre-Columbians were far greater in numbers, and affected the flora and fauna to a far greater degree, than previously thought. While not specifically about inter-tribal warfare, the conflict between tribes is constantly a part of the narrative.

Going back further (to 1996), there is War Before Civilization by Lawrence Keeley. While not solely about the Americas, they are part of its scope.

By the way, both books received glowing reviews from the New York Times. 1491 was a bestseller (it's probably available at your local library, as well as the bookstore closest to you). War Before Civilization was a finalist for the Los Angeles Times Book Prize (for history).

In fact, if you google some combination of 'warfare indian tribes intertribal bibliography' you will come across a teeming pile of article, books, dissertations and the like. So I have no idea where you get the notion that there's some sort of pervasive 'political correctness' suppressing such ideas. Are there dissenting views? Of course. Is that what 'political correctness' means now? That not everyone will agree with you? If so, the irony is off the charts.
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Old 05-26-2015, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Caverns measureless to man...
7,588 posts, read 6,633,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madison999 View Post
Is there a good documentary, book, whatever that goes in depth about Native American warfare before the whites showed up?

Everything is so politically correct. It's like there can't be a book or documentary about Native Americans that doesn't start out with "They were a beautiful, peaceful people; caretakers of the land..."

Where can I find some factual history not busting at the seams with political correctness/white guilt?
What books have you read that had that theme? It might be helpful to know that first, so we know what not to recommend.
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Old 05-26-2015, 12:41 PM
 
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every history book I ever had in school, every book I ever saw on the subject in the school library, every tv program, every documentary, etc etc.
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Old 05-26-2015, 12:43 PM
 
7,343 posts, read 4,372,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
You could start with Charles Mann's 1491. It's exactly as it sounds - a book about people in the New World before the arrival of Columbus. Among the theses it explores are the ideas that the Pre-Columbians were far greater in numbers, and affected the flora and fauna to a far greater degree, than previously thought. While not specifically about inter-tribal warfare, the conflict between tribes is constantly a part of the narrative.

Going back further (to 1996), there is War Before Civilization by Lawrence Keeley. While not solely about the Americas, they are part of its scope.

By the way, both books received glowing reviews from the New York Times. 1491 was a bestseller (it's probably available at your local library, as well as the bookstore closest to you). War Before Civilization was a finalist for the Los Angeles Times Book Prize (for history).

In fact, if you google some combination of 'warfare indian tribes intertribal bibliography' you will come across a teeming pile of article, books, dissertations and the like. So I have no idea where you get the notion that there's some sort of pervasive 'political correctness' suppressing such ideas. Are there dissenting views? Of course. Is that what 'political correctness' means now? That not everyone will agree with you? If so, the irony is off the charts.
Thank you for the first three paragraphs. I will track down 1491 to start.
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Old 05-26-2015, 03:10 PM
 
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were there any American Indian tribes that were non warriors? or were all tribes warriors in some way?

I never heard of the California coastal Indians or foothills of being warriors , like ISHI the last of the Yahi from the northern Ca areas.

which tribes were the peaceful or non fighting tribes?
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:44 AM
 
2,362 posts, read 1,925,727 times
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Originally Posted by green papaya View Post
were there any American Indian tribes that were non warriors? or were all tribes warriors in some way?

I never heard of the California coastal Indians or foothills of being warriors , like ISHI the last of the Yahi from the northern Ca areas.

which tribes were the peaceful or non fighting tribes?
I would think the peaceful non fighting tribes didn't last long, they would have been eaten alive


That's not to say they were the savages the American govt made them out to be, but to survive they would have had to defend themselves against warring tribes...and even go on the offensive from time to time...
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Old 05-27-2015, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
23,766 posts, read 29,074,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madison999 View Post
Is there a good documentary, book, whatever that goes in depth about Native American warfare before the whites showed up?

Everything is so politically correct. It's like there can't be a book or documentary about Native Americans that doesn't start out with "They were a beautiful, peaceful people; caretakers of the land..."

Where can I find some factual history not busting at the seams with political correctness/white guilt?
they probably weren't able to employ a great deal of technology or bio-warfare to efficiently destroy one another to the degree that the Euros were able to accomplish when they came sauntering along
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Old 05-27-2015, 11:16 AM
 
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Look up the Martyers of North America, St.Issac Jogues,St.Rene Goupil and the other jesuit maryters who tried to convert the natives to christianity. There is a shrine to them in i think New England some place. You can read what they did to them. You can also look up about native american captives. Some were well treated, others not. Look up Maggie Lockhart,she's mentioned in the book True Women about early life here in Texas. The tribe who captured her would wake her up by putting a lit stick of wood to her nose,etc.
If they did this to whites, imagine what some of them did to their fellow native americans.
Now Cynthia Parker, the mother of the famous chief, Quanah Parker was treated well, married a native american and had a son and maybe other children. When she was finally taken back to her family, she was very sad and missed the life she had lived for so long. Herman Lehrmann of Loyal Valley was another indian captive. He later was reunited with his family. While he married and had a family,he still like Cynthis missed the life he had led as a boy with the indians.He used to do exhibitions of indiand riding and hunting for the public.
Texas Escapes a travel site about towns an dhistorical places in Texas had something on both Herman and Cynthia.In fact,the town of Quanah ,Texas is named for her son.
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