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I'm not sure where to ask this question, so please move if this is the wrong place. My question is this: how common were integrated schools and neighborhoods in the 30's and 40's?
The reason I ask is somewhat convoluted. Basically, my 91 year-old grandma doesn't know much about her family history except that her mom (who is white) is from New Orleans. My grandma doesn't know who her dad was, but we always suspected he was African American, which was recently confirmed by a DNA test. However, my grandma grew up and continues to identify as a white person.
Anyway, my great-grandma moved them to Los Angeles in the 30's, where my grandma grew up. Today being Martin Luther King Day, we asked what she remembers about segregation and to our perhaps ignorant surprise she said she lived in a neighborhood and went to school with African Americans. Again, she does not and has never identified as an African American.
In our continuing effort to piece together our family history, we're trying to figure out if integrated schools and neighborhoods were normal in those times, particularly in Los Angeles or if my great-grandma perhaps lived in African American neighborhoods knowing that my grandma was biracial (unbeknownst to my grandma).
Aside to the story: my grandpa (her husband) is from Mexico and also lived in L.A. as a "white" person. I'm sure this was not an uncommon way to avoid racial prejudices.
Last edited by Sizzle-Chest; 01-16-2017 at 10:40 PM..
Reason: Clarify L.A. as Los Angeles and not Louisiana
I'm not sure where to ask this question, so please move if this is the wrong place. My question is this: how common were integrated schools and neighborhoods in the 30's and 40's?
It depends on what state you're talking about. In the south, no schools were integrated.
Quote:
The reason I ask is somewhat convoluted. Basically, my 91 year-old grandma doesn't know much about her family history except that her mom (who is white) is from New Orleans. My grandma doesn't know who her dad was, but we always suspected he was African American, which was recently confirmed by a DNA test. However, my grandma grew up and continues to identify as a white person.
Anyway, my great-grandma moved them to Los Angeles in the 30's, where my grandma grew up. Today being Martin Luther King Day, we asked what she remembers about segregation and to our perhaps ignorant surprise she said she lived in a neighborhood and went to school with African Americans. Again, she does not and has never identified as an African American.
They were probably colored then, not just the father but the mother too. They sound like a family that passed for white. There's no other way that she would have gone to school with African Americans.
What were the results of the DNA test?
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Aside to the story: my grandpa (her husband) is from Mexico and also lived in L.A. as a "white" person. I'm sure this was not an uncommon way to avoid racial prejudices.
That was normal. ALL Mexicans were considered white in those days, legally and socially. They didn't become minorities until the late 70s.
Plenty of elderly "hispanics" still see themselves as white. The whole "Latino/hispanic" concept is just the latest trend.
I'm not sure where to ask this question, so please move if this is the wrong place. My question is this: how common were integrated schools and neighborhoods in the 30's and 40's?
The reason I ask is somewhat convoluted. Basically, my 91 year-old grandma doesn't know much about her family history except that her mom (who is white) is from New Orleans. My grandma doesn't know who her dad was, but we always suspected he was African American, which was recently confirmed by a DNA test. However, my grandma grew up and continues to identify as a white person.
Anyway, my great-grandma moved them to Los Angeles in the 30's, where my grandma grew up. Today being Martin Luther King Day, we asked what she remembers about segregation and to our perhaps ignorant surprise she said she lived in a neighborhood and went to school with African Americans. Again, she does not and has never identified as an African American.
In our continuing effort to piece together our family history, we're trying to figure out if integrated schools and neighborhoods were normal in those times, particularly in Los Angeles or if my great-grandma perhaps lived in African American neighborhoods knowing that my grandma was biracial (unbeknownst to my grandma).
Aside to the story: my grandpa (her husband) is from Mexico and also lived in L.A. as a "white" person. I'm sure this was not an uncommon way to avoid racial prejudices.
I am black and am from Ohio. Our schools integrated in the 1870s so neither myself, my parents, grandparents, great grandparents, nor great great grandparents EVER experienced legally segregated schools.
Segregated schools depended on the state and many times the local areas. In other parts of Ohio, for instance, there were "negro" and "white" schools but in our area a decision was made to make public education accessible for all children in the 1850s. After lobbying and activism by black community leaders in the 1860s, the Board of Education integrated the schools here.
It is a myth that all schools or communities were segregated or that segregation was a big thing outside of the south.
And "passing" as white was a very common way to avoid prejudice if one could "pass." Some of my 2nd and 3rd great grandparents were inter-racial couples (black/white/mullatto) and one of my great great uncles "passed" for white and was an executive of a pretty well known corporation in the 1940s-1970s.
I am a very serious genealogical researcher so know a lot about my own family. Based on that hobby, I also got into local history and then urban history with a focus on black America. I've discovered that many of the things that we were taught in school about race and society from the onset of our country really are false or half truths.
It depends on what state you're talking about. In the south, no schools were integrated.
They were probably colored then, not just the father but the mother too. They sound like a family that passed for white. There's no other way that she would have gone to school with African Americans.
What were the results of the DNA test?
That was normal. ALL Mexicans were considered white in those days, legally and socially. They didn't become minorities until the late 70s.
Plenty of elderly "hispanics" still see themselves as white. The whole "Latino/hispanic" concept is just the latest trend.
I agree with this on Mexicans. Mexicans were not really considered "Latino" or "Hispanic" in the 1930s.
However, I'll note that OP you'd have to look into the history of the Los Angeles school district to see if there was any legal segregation.
It would be better not to go by any random google and to get some source material directly from the school district if you want to know for certain.
But I will reiterate that many school districts outside the south were not segregated. Neither were neighborhoods. My great grandmother's whose brother "passed" for white was best friends with a cousin of her future husband (my great grandfather) - the cousin is still alive and is 100 years old. She is the oldest living alum of my high school. She is very dark skinned and was best friends with my great grandmother who basically looked white. Both of them considered themselves black and they both went to the same high school. There were about 200 black students out of about 1000 at their school total in the 1930s.
It depends on what state you're talking about. In the south, no schools were integrated.
They were probably colored then, not just the father but the mother too. They sound like a family that passed for white. There's no other way that she would have gone to school with African Americans.
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Not quite, If we are talking about Los Angeles and not the New Orleans portion while Blacks were restricted on where they could buy a house, especially in suburbs like Compton of NWA infamy. if Blacks were within the school's catch area, perhaps renting an apartment they went to the school with white kids. When the restrictive covenants started to be lifted "white flight" caused most schools, along with the communities, to become defacto segregated as any white kids left within range of a critical mass of Blacks went to private schools
That was normal. ALL Mexicans were considered white in those days, legally and socially. They didn't become minorities until the late 70s.
Not in Texas. Texas Hispanics faced a great deal of social segregation- though not to the same degree as blacks. Likewise, multi generational or multi century Texas Hispanics with light complections were treated differently than Hispanics considered for various reasons to be "Mexican".
I agree with this on Mexicans. Mexicans were not really considered "Latino" or "Hispanic" in the 1930s.
It depended entirely on the Mexican / Latino / Hispanic in question.
Multi generational or multi century individuals with light complections were classified as "white" and accorded white privelages. Recent arrivals (mostly with darker complections) were classed as non whites. The amount of privelages afforded to them could vary between "almost white and treated as such" to "obviously not white and treated as such" depending on local custom.
Yes, especially in Texas. All Mexicans were considered white, look at any historical record.
It's unbelievable how many people today are trying to say otherwise.
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Texas Hispanics faced a great deal of social segregation
Social discrimination, yes, but *not* legal discrimination. There have never been any laws that discriminated against Mexicans or "spanish" people or people with spanish surnames, or whatever it means to be a "hispanic".
In Texas history, Mexicans were white. Always for all of American history - legally and socially.
I agree with this on Mexicans. Mexicans were not really considered "Latino" or "Hispanic" in the 1930s.
However, I'll note that OP you'd have to look into the history of the Los Angeles school district to see if there was any legal segregation.
It would be better not to go by any random google and to get some source material directly from the school district if you want to know for certain.
But I will reiterate that many school districts outside the south were not segregated. Neither were neighborhoods. My great grandmother's whose brother "passed" for white was best friends with a cousin of her future husband (my great grandfather) - the cousin is still alive and is 100 years old. She is the oldest living alum of my high school. She is very dark skinned and was best friends with my great grandmother who basically looked white. Both of them considered themselves black and they both went to the same high school. There were about 200 black students out of about 1000 at their school total in the 1930s.
You can study oll the yearboks of all very expensiva Catholic Schools in Florida. Alabama, Nueva Orleans and Texas during the 40's.... and MANY...a LOT MANY studens were from Latin America, and of course whites, as coloured people from the world could not travel except Mahrajashees, the Baker, and the owner of tin reserves of the world.
You can study oll the yearboks of all very expensiva Catholic Schools in Florida. Alabama, Nueva Orleans and Texas during the 40's.... and MANY...a LOT MANY studens were from Latin America, and of course whites, as coloured people from the world could not travel except Mahrajashees, the Baker, and the owner of tin reserves of the world.
Jesuits never were racists, they acceoted blacks.
I agree in regards to reviewing the older yearbooks. That IMO is the best way to see a racial makeup and ethnic makeup of an area.
My own family went to city public schools. They lived in a neighborhood that was primarily German, Polish, and Jewish. There was also a small black population and an even smaller Asian population.
One can see the ethnic makeup of the whites especially with the surnames of the students. Starting in the 1940s (this particular school opened in the 1920s) there was also some Latino surnames. Many of the classmates I went to school with who were Chicano/Chicana, their great grandparents moved to this area in the 1930s and so they are also represented in the old yearbooks.
In regards to the Jesuits, I would not say they were not racists. Most whites/Europeans were racist IMO in the early 20th century and prior due to the fact that they viewed blacks as inferior to whites - the traditional, real definition of racism. However, that doesn't mean that blacks were always denied an education or specific rights in a community. People could hold those views and still associate with black people.
FWIW, I do a lot of study on German immigrants in particular of the 19th century and they were one of the ethnicities least likely to hold slaves, primarily due to their religious affiliation, mostly Methodism that was anti-slavery. Some of German immigrants I've also discovered in my area inter-married with black residents very early in the history of the major urban areas here. Even so, I would not say they were all not racist against blacks. Racism is always around and it is not always focused on black people either.
Yes, especially in Texas. All Mexicans were considered white, look at any historical record.
It's unbelievable how many people today are trying to say otherwise.
Social discrimination, yes, but *not* legal discrimination. There have never been any laws that discriminated against Mexicans or "spanish" people or people with spanish surnames, or whatever it means to be a "hispanic".
In Texas history, Mexicans were white. Always for all of American history - legally and socially.
Do you have a source to support this? While I can believe that Mexicans of primarily European descent were considered white, I find it hard to believe that indigenous/Native American Mexicans were considered white.
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