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Old 02-18-2020, 01:06 AM
 
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This could make people rethink that Iran hostage crisis that cost Jimmy Carter his presidency.

Quote:
Now, a newly disclosed secret history from the offices of Mr. Rockefeller shows in vivid detail how Chase Manhattan Bank and its well-connected chairman worked behind the scenes to persuade the Carter administration to admit the shah, one of the bank’s most profitable clients...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/29/w...se-papers.html

 
Old 02-18-2020, 03:59 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
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Your thread title doesn't match what the article says. The taking of hostages was not part of any American plan, but the by-product of the decision to take in the shah, which is what we've known all along. This just adds behind the scenes context into why the decision to allow the shah into America was made.
 
Old 02-18-2020, 06:58 AM
 
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I first read about this from Mother Jones. My use of the word "planned" I guess was in response to the shenanigans touched on by this writer. Things seemed calculated with this.

Quote:
But that’s not all. After touching off the hostage crisis, Project Eagle was then redirected to ensuring that they didn’t get released too soon...

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dr...-the-hostages/
 
Old 02-18-2020, 08:42 AM
 
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Yeah, because certain parties may have "planned" for the Shah of Iran to be admitted to the US (and it makes sense regardless, as an ally to let the shah in, plus he was in need of medical care as he was dying) does NOT connect to evidence that certain powerful parties "planned" for the embassy to be invaded and hostages to be taken. Apparantly even the Ayotollah didn't even know this was going to happen.

Besides the logic - why would Rockefeller or Chase Manhattan bank or whoever want the hostage crises to occur? The hostage crises didn't help anyone except maybe the communist block. It was devestating to the country, and also to Iran for that matter (as they became a pariah to the world community, and still are). So we need motivation first why certain western power brokers would have wanted this to occur.

Also, the people of Iran were certainly motivated to attack the embassy regardless if the Shah came to the US, as they (rightfully in many cases) accused the US of imperialistic manipulation of the government and support for the shah for many years.

A better question is why the failure of intelligence to predict the embassy takeover and the hostage crises? The embassy had been attacked at least two times at that stage, with hostages taken. They should have either closed the embassy or fortified and armed it better.
 
Old 02-18-2020, 10:24 AM
 
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In global management, there is no such thing as accidents and affairs, that "just happen".
Everything is planned. Nothing it told to masses, only decoys.

A single guy standing between two dealerships with hand written cardboard saying "dealer is scumbag" can be self organized and motivated.

Few folks with cooler full of beer sitting on intersection with a handwritten sign about some rights or else, possibly too, though they likely need permit from police to register their demonstration.
Anything above such meager effort requires organization, funding, leadership, plan, maintenance and alignment with powers to be. Along with media support the right way.

Going against a one and only world power requires thousandfold that. And, alignment with the real power. Or, folks simply disappear, fall out the windows, get heart attacks or into car accidents. NOTHING of such magnitude ever just happens and always bears hidden goal.
 
Old 02-18-2020, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
This could make people rethink that Iran hostage crisis that cost Jimmy Carter his presidency.
It's irrelevant.

Carter's refusal to grant a visa did not cause the hostage crisis and Carter's change of mind later granting a visa did not cause the hostage crisis, either.

Carter caused the hostage crisis.

Carter knew the Shah intended to abdicate.

Carter knew Ambassador Bill Smith had been in secret negotiations with Khomeini for 14 months. Smith did not personally speak with Khomeini, rather British contacts engaged in "shuttle-diplomacy" negotiated on behalf of the US.

Carter knew Khomeini was onboard with the US.

Carter knew Smith and Khomeini were going to meet face-to-face sometime in March/April 1979.

Carter knew Khomeini's primary concern was security and freedom from US interference.

Carter knew, or at least suspected, that the French DGSE ruined everything.

All Carter had to do was roll out the red-carpet for Khomeini and Iran would be a US ally today.

Instead, Carter listens to the two idiots on his security council, Zbigniew Brzezinski and Gary Sick, and sends General Huyser to Tehran to convince Iranian army commanders to initiate a coup.

Notwithstanding the blatant Act of War the US just committed, Khomeini understandably felt like he'd been stabbed in the back by the US.

Later, when Khomeini is speaking before students at Tehran University, he tells the students how the US stabbed him in the back, and how the US attempted to get the Iranian military to take over the country.

That, is what caused the hostage crisis, because the incensed students, who were understandably extremely angry at the blatant Act of War committed by the US, stormed US Embassy Mission Tehran.

That is also why Khomeini summarily executed all seven army officers who met with General Huyser, and the head of the CIA-trained SAVAK.

As you can see, a visa had nothing to do with it.
 
Old 02-18-2020, 12:24 PM
 
14,994 posts, read 24,004,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
In global management, there is no such thing as accidents and affairs, that "just happen".
Everything is planned. Nothing it told to masses, only decoys.

A single guy standing between two dealerships with hand written cardboard saying "dealer is scumbag" can be self organized and motivated.

Few folks with cooler full of beer sitting on intersection with a handwritten sign about some rights or else, possibly too, though they likely need permit from police to register their demonstration.
Anything above such meager effort requires organization, funding, leadership, plan, maintenance and alignment with powers to be. Along with media support the right way.

Going against a one and only world power requires thousandfold that. And, alignment with the real power. Or, folks simply disappear, fall out the windows, get heart attacks or into car accidents. NOTHING of such magnitude ever just happens and always bears hidden goal.
Not exactly sure what your conclusion is here, particularly your last paragraph which is confusingly written and incomprehensible.

Everything may be planned, but likewise the "best laid plans" often fails in execution. Chaos theory and the butterfly event teaches us that. There are just to many variables to manage. Random events are all interconnected, when the Ayotollah burps in Iran it has an impact somewhere. Measure millions of these seemingly random events and the impact is still impossible for mortal man. In regards to this topic, the takeover of the embassy was planned the Muslim Student Followers of the Iman's Line, possibly with assistance from what later became the Revolutionary Guard (Iran's revolutionary SS-like militant branch at the time).

Once again, it wasn't planned. But it certainly should have been predicted.
 
Old 02-18-2020, 03:46 PM
 
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I'd like to see more coverage on the TV news on this. This should be bigger news. Especially if Carter had been deliberately deceived.

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020/...iran-diplomacy
 
Old 02-18-2020, 04:24 PM
 
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Google Operation Ajax... CIA/MI6 orchestrated overthrow of Iran 1953.
 
Old 02-18-2020, 04:32 PM
 
14,994 posts, read 24,004,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
I'd like to see more coverage on the TV news on this. This should be bigger news. Especially if Carter had been deliberately deceived.

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020/...iran-diplomacy
Well, look at it this way. What would it look like and what would have been the impact to foreign relations with our allies if we had NOT taken the Shah, our ally for 40 some years, into the U.S. Do you turn your back and betray a friend of the United States? And if so, how would future leaders treat us? It's clear Carter didn't want him, he was moving from country to country. In my opinion there was no reconciliation with Revolutionary Iran regardless, Carter should have seen that, Carter should have grown a pair and closed the embassy or fortified it weather the Shah was let in or not. He desired the appeasement strategy with the new government of Iran, betray a friend and work with the Ayotollah. I submit that would not have worked anyways and our dealing with Iran since that prove that.

But also the Shah didn't even stay in the US. He went to Panama, then Egypt and died there.
And he was dying - he died a year later. His medical reasons were legitimate.

The rest of the article is the usual Trump comparison/bash attempt by the reporter and we can safely ignore that.
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