Countries under Communist Influence (Roman, general, 80's, facts)

[krsheely]

What happended to countries that were part of or under direct/indirect control of the former Soviet Union when they broke up? I know the process was not overnight, did they set up there own governments? Or by the time that it actually feel had most countries gained their independence?

[NJGOAT]

By the time of the actual collapse virtually all of the independent countries and regions had already formed local governments. Gorbachevs policy of glasnost had huge impacts on Soviet society. It started with movements in the Warsaw Pact countries when the USSR pledged to no longer interfere in their internal affairs. What started there were revolutions that overthrew the communit pro-Soviet governments. These policies then extended into the USSR itself as glasnost allowed multi-platform candidates to run in elections as well as the media to begin reporting for itself.

With the opening of elections and greater media freedom, many of the satellite states of the USSR began to elect local governments that were pro-nationalist. It is important to note that the countries that made up the USSR were always independent states under the central authority of the communist party in Russia. So, the idea of them as their own nations was not new, what was new was their ability to elect leaders that weren't communists and the weakening of the communist parties control over all the entities of the USSR.

So, it was a gradual change over the period of two years from roughly January 1990 to December 1991 when it all finally came down. Before that, beginning in the 80's there was a constant weakening of central communist party control over the media and economy in reaction to economic conditions in the USSR caused by falling oil prices and lack of currency reserves. The USSR was essentially bled dry and the reforms instituted to stem the tide ran out of their control and resulted in the toppling of the communist system.

[slowlane]

Interestingly, Ukraine SSR always maintained its own separate Delegate to the United Nations General Assembly in NYC, separate from the USSR's Delegate.

Just going offhand by my memory -- some key beginning factors in starting Communism's downfall were

-- Polish shipyard worker, Lech Walesa and his "Solidarity" labor movement/ strike, which gained international attention. He later became elected leader of the new Democratic Poland.

-- John Paul's election as Pope, and the wildly enthusiastic homecoming the Polish people gave him, which embarrassed Poland's atheistic Communist rulers. Also his support and embrace of the Solidarity labor movement (also supported by American factory workers).

-- The Romanian Revolution in Timisoara, in December 1989

-- The Internet, which made detailed information about the West's prosperous lifestyle, and communication with the West, much more available to Eastern Europeans.

Hungary's decision to open its border with Austria. This led to East Germans and others eagerly flooding into this open "gap" to the West, and soon afterward the other countries' East-West fault-line barriers were removed as well, including the Berlin Wall in I think November 1989.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by slowlane

Interestingly, Ukraine SSR always maintained its own separate Delegate to the United Nations General Assembly in NYC, separate from the USSR's Delegate.

Stalin insisted that the Ukraine have its own seat in the General Assembly so the USSR could in effect "vote twice". The reasoning was based on the Ukraine's brief period of independence.

By the same logic Truman could have insisted on Texas having a General Assembly seat.

[kettlepot]

Originally Posted by slowlane

Just going offhand by my memory -- some key beginning factors in starting Communism's downfall were

For the record, I thought I would re-order your comments in their historical order.

Originally Posted by slowlane

-- John Paul's election as Pope, and the wildly enthusiastic homecoming the Polish people gave him, which embarrassed Poland's atheistic Communist rulers. Also his support and embrace of the Solidarity labor movement (also supported by American factory workers).

JPII: Elected in 1978, trip to Poland in 1979. What his visit did, is allow Poles to realize first hand that the vast majority of Poles did not support the Communist regime in Warsaw. Living in a Police state causes people to feel they are all alone. It's sort of like a group of several dozen people being held hostage by a gunman who only has 6 bullets. No one wants attack the gunman first, all alone, because he knows he has a 100% chance of being shot, but if all the people attack at once they know their individual odds are better.

Originally Posted by slowlane

-- Polish shipyard worker, Lech Walesa and his "Solidarity" labor movement/ strike, which gained international attention. He later became elected leader of the new Democratic Poland.

August 1980. Lech Walesa is one of the great heroes of the 20th Century.

Originally Posted by slowlane

Hungary's decision to open its border with Austria. This led to East Germans and others eagerly flooding into this open "gap" to the West, and soon afterward the other countries' East-West fault-line barriers were removed as well, including the Berlin Wall in I think November 1989.

After the Polish elections of June 1989, as you said Hungary opened up its border with Austria, which caused a flood of East Germans to flee via that route. Hungarians themselves didn't leave in such large numbers because there was no 2nd Hungary to go to, but East Germans had another German state just across the wall waiting for them. Several hundred thousands fled. The East German state was bleeding dry.

By the way, the Polish elections, Tianamen Square massacre, and the death of Khomeini all happened in the same 24 hour period of June 3-4 1989.

Originally Posted by slowlane

-- The Romanian Revolution in Timisoara, in December 1989

The Czech government collapsed in November, followed by the only bloody revolution, Romania's in December. I think the Bulgarian Communist government lingered on for a few more weeks/months.

Originally Posted by slowlane

-- The Internet, which made detailed information about the West's prosperous lifestyle, and communication with the West, much more available to Eastern Europeans.

The internet didn't play a role in the downfall of Communism. The internet didn't exist outside of the U.S. Government at this point. However, the fax machine and possibly satellite dishes did, and they are probably what you are remembering about expanded communication to the outside world.

Originally Posted by slowlane

Interestingly, Ukraine SSR always maintained its own separate Delegate to the United Nations General Assembly in NYC, separate from the USSR's Delegate.

The Russians had a third vote for Byelorussia SSR as well. I'm not sure about this, but I think the Russians got the idea for this from the British who wanted a 2nd vote for India. Of course India was independent 2 years later, and their need for a 2nd vote went with them, but the Soviets kept their 3 votes. However, since the General Assembly is essentially meaningless, it never really mattered how many votes the Soviets were able to boost their tally.

After this, the dissolution proceeded to the Soviet Union itself. The Georgians actually started active resistance in 1988, but it was the Baltic states who first gained their actual independence since their annexation by Stalin was done in violation of international law.

[annika08]

I believe the Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia was also a contributing factor to the fall of Soviet communism.

Velvet Revolution: Facts, Discussion Forum, and Encyclopedia Article

[jtur88]

Originally Posted by majoun

Stalin insisted that the Ukraine have its own seat in the General Assembly so the USSR could in effect "vote twice". The reasoning was based on the Ukraine's brief period of independence.

.

That wasn't the reason. The reason was so there would be a relatively balanced representation between the east and the west. Neutral states felt railroaded by the US Allies. Byelorussian SSR also had a seat, now Belarus.

[Manolón]

Neutral states?
You have to be kidding.