How oligarchs destroyed a major American city - Houston (Mart: schools, income)

[crone]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

Fact is if any city doesn't offer those "tax incentives" another city will, and guess which city will get those developments and the employment they will offer.

Those tax incentives should be outlawed. It was fun living in a small county made up of very small towns. We got to watch Ocean Spray play every city council on the freeway for tax abatement. They finally ended up getting some town to say yes. They got 10 years of tax abatement on a big bottling plant for 8 minimum jobs. Then the city had to put in the roads, etc. for the plant.

So much for free enterprise.

[cBach]

Notice ipuck disappeared after I mentioned how the free market doesn't really exist, it's all about choosing what you want the government to fund, not about if it does fund something...

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by Dopo

Government is the one that brings corruption to real estate development?
Next thing you are gonna tell us that developers don't pay bribes to get the best roads running next to their land.

If you are talking about specific bribes, the politicians must accept them in order for the corruption to occur.

If you are talking about figurative bribes, as in a business will get to build as long as they pay for the new road, it's still the government and politicians that have the final say.

If a man has an affair, who do you feel bears the primary responsibility, the married man who has the affair or the woman in the bar who tempts him?

[ipuck]

Originally Posted by cBach

Notice ipuck disappeared after I mentioned how the free market doesn't really exist, it's all about choosing what you want the government to fund, not about if it does fund something...

I made my point and now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said zero government involvement. I said the existing controls in place is sufficient. Is only some of you throwing liberation crap and twist my position to zero involvement.

I give you another example. That Ashby high-rise. So for the benefit of a few residents, the tower was delay for 7 years. Is this what we want Houston to become?

How many projects will still be around when approval takes 7 years?

[jerbear30]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

If you are talking about specific bribes, the politicians must accept them in order for the corruption to occur.

If you are talking about figurative bribes, as in a business will get to build as long as they pay for the new road, it's still the government and politicians that have the final say.

If a man has an affair, who do you feel bears the primary responsibility, the married man who has the affair or the woman in the bar who tempts him?

This analogy only works if the cheating man would lose his job if he turned town the temptress.

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by jerbear30

This analogy only works if the cheating man would lose his job if he turned town the temptress.

No.

The question is who is to primarily to blame, the cheating husband or the temptress?

[radiolibre99]

I give you another example. That Ashby high-rise. So for the benefit of a few residents, the tower was delay for 7 years. Is this what we want Houston to become?

How many projects will still be around when approval takes 7 years?

I think the point if I'm not mistaken of the anti Ashby crowd was to stop the development. So I would expect a delay. And wow, 7 years? They must've really held on.

[crone]

Part of the reason to be anti Ashby was traffic.

Just like when the Galleria was built. Nobody gave a thought to the amount of traffic that would be generated from such a project.

IMO, everybody knows developers are going to develop. They should also have the responsibility to make provisions for the traffic and every thing else their project puts on taxpayers and the community.

The sh-- literally hit the fan when a Texas AG told the CoH to stop all development until they had the sanitary sewer capacity to handle it. The city had to stop dumping raw sewage into Galveston Bay. That lasted a coupe of years until a new sewage treatment plant went online.

The husband. There will always be some kind of temptress.

DH instructed the guys who did the selling at his place to just not talk to folks who wanted "extras". He always said they didn't need that particular business that badly.

If a city paper pusher expects and asks for a reward from somebody getting the work he bids out, ya just don't do it. We have several friends who said no when asks for money in return for getting work from the CoH. The work amounted to +/- 5000 a month and the city employee asked for 1000 dollars a month while the work was in place.

[ipuck]

Originally Posted by crone

DH instructed the guys who did the selling at his place to just not talk to folks who wanted "extras". He always said they didn't need that particular business that badly.

If a city paper pusher expects and asks for a reward from somebody getting the work he bids out, ya just don't do it. We have several friends who said no when asks for money in return for getting work from the CoH. The work amounted to +/- 5000 a month and the city employee asked for 1000 dollars a month while the work was in place.

When I was in the East Coast, I had some developer friends in the big cities where zoning rules and various planning commission is in place. Every step of the way involves money. You got the union labor to pay, the architectural firm that is in to get it approved, the politician to handle the neighborhood, the 1 or 2 neighborhood spokesperson, etc. Everybody PAY to play.

The big firms payout through Consultants and various non-public organization the politician is in to make it clean, the little ones just paid under the table.

It does nothing in the end but add more layers to the process and allow a few fat cats to make a killing.

Think of it as MUD here but 10x more corrupt.

[979Texan]

To everyone on this thread: