How can a Mass Transit for Houston Suburbs work? (Webster: low income, apartment)

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by NigerianNightmare

Going into specifics. Here are some changes that cities/areas in SE Houston could make today that would significantly improve walkability in suburbs.

Like I said, the density is there, the issue is you can still build a neighborhood focused on walkability without sacrificing the actual number of people in a region. Managing Space is far more important.

In Webster for example:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/We...!4d-95.1182663

This area clearly has a high-ish density. The majority of Webster residents are probably in Apartment complexes scattered throughout the retail within the city. So the city, has a semi-urban future. Simply because it's majority retail/commercial development, similarly to Nassau Bay which has residential neighborhoods tucked behind Retail/Commercial development.

Now These areas can easily become small walkable nodes in the future.

A simple design flaw like this in Webster,
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.5467...7i16384!8i8192
Could become walkable by removing the apartment fences, and then adding entrances to these buildings. All of these are retail buildings that advertise towards the highway/road, but have ugly backsides that directly face the residents of apartments. The fences separating the complexes, keeps retail inaccessible not only for this complex, but forces someone to drive the .1 of a mile. Removing those fences, and making the back of the retail more attractive and accessible through an actual, door would encourage, people to walk outside their complex to these various joints literally around the corner from them. You could also pedestrianize the new area behind the food places, leading to the apartments by adding roadblocks that limit vehicle access, to the large vehicles that need to go there. for deliveries.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/29.5...e3!4m2!4m1!3e2

In this same area a small pedestrian bridge, like the ones designed for parks, could connect the apartment complexes in Webster to the Walgreens in Clear Lake, and the Clear Lake apartments to the food options in Webster.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/29.5...e3!4m2!4m1!3e2


Some examples of what I mean when I say keep the structural density around but shift development.

Nassau Bay- Apartment complex with the parking inside and no fencing.
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.5483...7i16384!8i8192

Webster Street, with the parking behind the house, making the neighborhood more child-friendly and walkable.
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.5356...7i13312!8i6656

You can have the same structural density, at higher densities, still feel quaint and walkable, while catering to the car. Just catering to the car less than current subdivisions.

This is just little changes. Far more bigger changes could be done in Pasadena, Ellington Field, and the space between Pasadena/Friendswood and Clear Lake. Before another MPC in Alvin needs to be added to the area. These other changes would actually increase the population though, so I'm not including them in this post.

So glad you're pointing this out. Many of our suburban areas already have density of homes and activity. It's the street pattern and urban design that creates the walkability.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by tstone

This really depends on where you are in a neighborhood. At my old place I could walk to a group of stores anchored by a grocery store in 5 min... from the edge of the neighborhood. I considered that fairly walkable. From my current home I can bike to a giant HEB with more stores in 5 min but walking would take almost 20... from the center of a neighborhood. The distance is 0.8 miles-- bike-able yes, walkable... not really. A few people do this, not many.



Walkability in the burbs seems to be considered undesirable. My old house was convenient but being "fairly walkable" meant the property value suffered and it took longer to sell than other similar homes that were further away. And people will assume something is going wrong in your life if you're on foot. Another mentality is: if you can walk to a store then criminals will walk from that store to your house.

BTW the burb mentality is even more for Metro... the assumption being that weirdos will get off to roam, beg and steal in your neighborhood. Metro has 4 park & rides somewhat near me-- but they are diverted too far north & south to be useful, makes riding the bus an even bigger time waster than it already is by itself. By design.

I'm in Uptown every other week and have observed that shiny new MetroRapid thing up & down Post Oak. Complete window dressing, as it is 100% empty most of the time. If you can over-fill that thing up at all hours, then maybe we can start talking about how we can make mass transit work in the burbs.

The Uptown rapid bus was great idea which I have supported. The issue was that it was meant to provide a commute alternative for office workers living in the suburbs - its main purpose was to connect to the existing P&R service so folks could commute without sitting in nightmare traffic on 290, the Katy Freeway, and the Southwest Freeway, and the afternoon choke points trying to get on those freeways. Since COVID, the number of workers coming into Uptown daily has drastically declined, which has cut the underlying need for service. Supposedly the daily occupancy of office buildings in Houston is only back up to 50%-60% of pre-COVID, and that's about tops in the whole nation.

That said, the pedestrian improvements to Post Oak Boulevard were every bit as important as the busway, and they have enormous value regardless of commuting.

[elnina]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

Let's work on suburban walkability before we seriously plan transit (other than P&R). Keep in mind that large portions of our suburbs are not members of METRO either and would have to come up with their own $ to fund any service.

And yes, walkability can be a thing, even in Houston. Other southern U.S. cities with climate similar to Houston have walkability that people enjoy, even if it dates from pre-1950. And global cities that are tropical year-round, with humidity and downpours, or are in baking desert climates surpassing 110F are also walkable. No reason it can't be like that here. Shade and rain protection from trees and awnings / porticos are key.

Everything could be "doable" but the problem is (as someone already mentioned) that nobody here WANTS to walk more than a block. Weather is not the issue. People are not accustomed to walking. It could be unsafe too.
Many laws would need to be created or changed. The ways how people think.
The whole infrastructure need to be redesigned for pedestrians. Quality pavement, street lights, traffic lights, safe pedestrian crossings, tree shades, benches to rest, stores to shop, places to meet others etc.
I just read that Berlin is planning world's largest car-free area in their capital city. It will happen. But I don't envision any large car free areas in most of the US. It's not what people want.

[malcorub16]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

And yes, walkability can be a thing, even in Houston. Other southern U.S. cities with climate similar to Houston have walkability that people enjoy, even if it dates from pre-1950. And global cities that are tropical year-round, with humidity and downpours, or are in baking desert climates surpassing 110F are also walkable. No reason it can't be like that here. Shade and rain protection from trees and awnings / porticos are key.

Aren't the downtown skyscrapers connected by tunnels because no one wants to walk on the streets due to the heat and rain...or is that just a myth?

[gwarnecke]

Originally Posted by WRM20

The racist part of not wanting public transport. People in the Memorial Villages were talking about removing bus stops to "keep undesirables out" until it was pointed out that their maids and nannies might have a hard time getting to work. Of course those were the same folks who were vehemently against cell towers in their area, but whined and moaned about how poor their cell service was. They may be well off, but that doesn't mean they are smart, practical, or have common sense.

All of the Memorial Villages have Metro service except Spring Valley Village. It's like a black hole on the metro route map, with stops along Westview to the east and west but not within city limits. Not sure of the history there but it is annoying...the one time I took the bus home I had to ride down Long Point and walk 1+ mile after dark.

Given the mess that Verizon has made of the 5G fiber backbone install in the area, residents have good reason to be suspicious of the cell phone co activities. FWIW, my cell service is good enough as-is.

[elnina]

Another thing: how many people you know drive from home to work and straight back home? Most stop to run errands, pick-up kids from the school, visit a cleaner, get few things for a dinner etc.
I never saw anyone walking with a shopping bag, except from a store to the car.
People walking are "losers", people driving a bus are "losers" even people riding a bike, if not for a recreational reasons, are "losers".
Look at the posts on Nextdoor - people are calling police when they see someone walking...
It would take few generations to change their mindset...

[malcorub16]

Originally Posted by elnina

I never saw anyone walking with a shopping bag, except from a store to the car.
People walking are "losers", people driving a bus are "losers" even people riding a bike, if not for a recreational reasons, are "losers".
.

You forgot the losers that don't buy brand new/never lived in houses/McMansions.

[gwarnecke]

People who regularly walk or use local bus services by choice aren't losers, but they do assign a very small value to their time, vs those who make comparable trips by car.

Metro's limited funds are best spent to improve the service offered to those who don't use transit by choice (disabled, elderly, can't afford a car, etc). These customers are more likely to be found in poorer and denser parts of town than in the suburbs.

[mojo101]

We have a supermarket called Fiesta,once a week,they have a van which comes to apt complex to drive you to shop for grocery.

[gwarnecke]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

The Uptown rapid bus was great idea which I have supported. The issue was that it was meant to provide a commute alternative for office workers living in the suburbs - its main purpose was to connect to the existing P&R service so folks could commute without sitting in nightmare traffic on 290, the Katy Freeway, and the Southwest Freeway, and the afternoon choke points trying to get on those freeways. Since COVID, the number of workers coming into Uptown daily has drastically declined, which has cut the underlying need for service. Supposedly the daily occupancy of office buildings in Houston is only back up to 50%-60% of pre-COVID, and that's about tops in the whole nation.

That said, the pedestrian improvements to Post Oak Boulevard were every bit as important as the busway, and they have enormous value regardless of commuting.

I was always a bit suspicious that the BRT wouldn't catch on with the white-collar workers who fill the Uptown office towers, but at least BRT was a relatively cheap experiment (vs a full light rail line). And I agree that the Post Oak Blvd improvements are beautiful.

Maybe transit use will come back someday, but I wouldn't be surprised if it never reaches the modest heights it achieved in Houston pre-COVID. Most of my friends and colleagues have indicated that they'll never return to the office full-time, and a 1+ hour commute that they hated making 5x a week is palatable in a personal vehicle 1-2x a week.