Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Investing
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-24-2009, 11:48 AM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,858,535 times
Reputation: 9283

Advertisements

The stocks are up 150 points, anyone know whats going on? I can't find good news anywhere... is there good news I don't know about?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-24-2009, 11:55 AM
 
Location: West, Southwest, East & Northeast
3,463 posts, read 7,307,014 times
Reputation: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
The stocks are up 150 points, anyone know whats going on? I can't find good news anywhere... is there good news I don't know about?
Bernanke said he thought a recovery may start in late 2009, but full recovery would be 2-3 years or more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2009, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,863,746 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
The stocks are up 150 points, anyone know whats going on? I can't find good news anywhere... is there good news I don't know about?
Bernacke said that the downturn would end this year and start recovering next year.

Then went on to say a bunch of "IFs"

If this happens and that...

I guess people tuned out at that point.

Some of the if's included; the housing market bottoms out, the world economy doesn't get worse, the stimulation package has an affect etc....

Basically some day traders thought it would be fun to buy and then sell off for a profit at the end of the day or in after hours, or tomorrow morning.

This roller coaster is fun isn't it????
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2009, 12:03 PM
 
1,530 posts, read 3,790,970 times
Reputation: 746
Just now figuring it out? The little person always pays for everything in one way or another... doesn't matter who's in office.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2009, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,863,746 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
On nearly all counts and certainly in total, it worsens and lengthens the problem. The basic problem is a shrinking money supply. The demise of the dollar which is only becoming more valuable at this point, is a rather silly notion until the now rather powerful deflationary feedback loop is stopped. Obama has magnified the problem.

The Federal Reserve stimulus is just a lot of cage rattling of no meaning. Its pushing with a string. It does not matter with deflating asset prices which is the real basis for bank credit. Once effective interest rates reach zero their is no money creation potential.

Bailouts for Insolvency is post inflationary. Rebuilding bank assets is simply cleaning up balance sheets subject to bank accounting rules. That is why a zombie bank still exists. Its an accounting rule they are violating because banks are not normally allowed to create money without being responsible for the principle outlay. Creating money for a bailout is simply a book keeping method to bypass the rule. Its post inflationary. No new money is actually being created. No new money is ending up in the hands of the goods and services economy. It was already spewed out.

The Fed has now made loans to banks who have in turn put them on deposit with the Fed who pay interest on deposits equal to the price of the loan. Its circular book money. Until market based forces create demand for assets, banks will only see their collateral vaporize. They will not loan.

The Obama plan by "assisting" home owners keeps people in houses that are worth less than the liability is stifling . I don't want anyone to help me keep something that is worth less than I am paying. Help yourself and walk away. What this will do is instead of default and have the asset written off, this will keep money flowing to banks which retire the money. To pay a mortgage people must take money flowing in the economy and remove it to a bank. If everyone defaulted the money would be "free" to the seller and circulate in the economy. The Obama assistance shrinks the money supply. It will also artificially support housing prices which will NOT draw out bank credit.


The jobs plan is also rather weak.It will not represent long term or real demand. This will have a temp worker effect and contract hire. Most people who have been out of work need to rebuild their savings and will not see long term employment which will also cause them to hesitate to spend. Lowering taxes or tax credits would be much more effective.


So in total the Obama plan is counter stimulative. Allowing defaults would cause the banks to be insolvent and they would need to start from scratch and it would clean the books instead of seek to draw money out of the system. It would eventually cause the collapse again but at least this one would be over. Our banking system will always collapse this way.
So this brings us to who are they really helping?

It started with Bush & Paulson. Who did they help? His frat buddies, his business relations, his politico's.

Who is Obamanation helping? His frat buddies, his business relations, his politico's.

The powers at be, do not want to solve anything, they want to shift everything in a panic generated scenario to the hands of their friends and power brokers.

Where they are blinded is in the fact that the middle class will not stand for it and do everything they can to counter act their destruction of the American way of life. You will see blood in the streets this summer, and its not going to be pretty in the large cities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2009, 12:27 PM
 
14,993 posts, read 23,896,013 times
Reputation: 26523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kootr View Post
Bernanke said he thought a recovery may start in late 2009, but full recovery would be 2-3 years or more.
Yeah I saw that. As usual the government is there with late news, but at least it confirms it.

Most of the big businesses have office loads of analysts and bean counters crunching numbers that already know when the recovery will start. My company does and already forecasted what quarter a recovery will be. Of course with Obama's anti-stimulus bill they probably have to reforecast and delay it a few quarters. But it was indeed in the 1st qtr 2010. Most companies forecasted likewise. The private sector always has smarter financial people than the government, not to say we still have the idiot CEO's and CFO's that mess things up.

Now, the reason the dow is plumeting is because business and investors are getting a picture that

1.) Obama and his economic team don't know what they are doing (Giethner coming on TV and saying no details about he will distribute the TARP funds/Obama on TV saying he is going to reduce the deficit in half, one week after he signed a bill that doubled it),
and
2.) Obama's policies are turning out to be un-friendly to business (nationalized banks, increased business tax).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2009, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,863,746 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Yeah I saw that. As usual the government is there with late news, but at least it confirms it.

Most of the big businesses have office loads of analysts and bean counters crunching numbers that already know when the recovery will start. My company does and already forecasted what quarter a recovery will be. Of course with Obama's anti-stimulus bill they probably have to reforecast and delay it a few quarters. But it was indeed in the 1st qtr 2010. Most companies forecasted likewise. The private sector always has smarter financial people than the government, not to say we still have the idiot CEO's and CFO's that mess things up.

Now, the reason the dow is plumeting is because business and investors are getting a picture that

1.) Obama and his economic team don't know what they are doing (Giethner coming on TV and saying no details about he will distribute the TARP funds/Obama on TV saying he is going to reduce the deficit in half, one week after he signed a bill that doubled it),
and
2.) Obama's policies are turning out to be un-friendly to business (nationalized banks, increased business tax).
So this is a formula for recovery in 2010?

It's sounds more like the Fox guarding the hen house, while the roosters get slaughtered by the farmer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2009, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,791,864 times
Reputation: 24863
Obama's policies are not unfriendly to honest businessmen but are creating difficulties for the speculators and thieves. I think he has not increased the top bracket income tax rates to a level that discourages gambling with other people's money. INHO the upper 5% should be paying between 85% to 98% of their total income after deducting the 85th percentile amount.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2009, 01:05 PM
 
14,993 posts, read 23,896,013 times
Reputation: 26523
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
So this is a formula for recovery in 2010?

It's sounds more like the Fox guarding the hen house, while the roosters get slaughtered by the farmer.
Not sure I understand your question - I offered no formula. Just opinion on analytics and opinion on businesses view of Obama's solutions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2009, 01:11 PM
 
458 posts, read 776,969 times
Reputation: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Obama's policies are not unfriendly to honest businessmen but are creating difficulties for the speculators and thieves. I think he has not increased the top bracket income tax rates to a level that discourages gambling with other people's money. INHO the upper 5% should be paying between 85% to 98% of their total income after deducting the 85th percentile amount.
Why should the government get all their money? Raising taxes will discourage investment. That is the last thing we need.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Investing

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:11 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top