Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Does a good job at showing a lack of Islamic Knowledge and a strong desire to present a view he wants Christianity to hear. A very typical Christian fundamentalist.
Some errors:
He believes we see the Sirat Rasul Allah as being fact and scripture
He like many others does not understand Abrogation as used in the Qur'an
He takes things out of context and does not seem to have any knowledge of the whys each Surah was given or it's purpose or who it was directed at.
Good to watch, as it does give insight as to how some non-Muslims arrive at their mistaken views. Hard to contradict him as he is not discussing Islam, but is promoting his own concept of Islam
A more peaceful version of Terry Jones, but still a fundamentalist Christian and trying to explain Islam in Christian terms.
Actually he does exactly what you are accusing him of not doing, and has a lot of historical information that can be backed up.
A common defence is to find one thing wrong with what he says, and attack him, disregarding all the other facts he enters.
While you, and many other muslims disregard the Sira, it is probably the most important book to understand Islam.
You basically cannot understand the Qur'an without it, or you are left to the mercy of someone to explain the Qur'an to youm in which case he will lead you on the path he wants to go.
Actually he does exactly what you are accusing him of not doing, and has a lot of historical information that can be backed up.
A common defence is to find one thing wrong with what he says, and attack him, disregarding all the other facts he enters.
While you, and many other muslims disregard the Sira, it is probably the most important book to understand Islam.
You basically cannot understand the Qur'an without it, or you are left to the mercy of someone to explain the Qur'an to youm in which case he will lead you on the path he wants to go.
One thing we are to avoid doing is to pass our Explanations of the Qur'an (Tafsir) as anything except our own opinion and it may be wrong. We do not even accept the tafsir of noted Scholars, such as Kathir, as fact. We do look at tafsir from others and try to understand why their conclusion was reached.
It is very far from being scripture. May contain some of Ishaq's writings but we also know it was embellished upon by others such as Hashem. It is not a sacred source nor even the original.
While it is Sunnah to follow Muhammad(swt) it is not required except in terms of religious practice. Such as prayer times, Number of Rakkats in each prayer, The 5 pillars etc.
The Qur'an teaches us why to worship the Ahadith teaches how.
It is not so much that Wagner is in error, it is more of him lacking actual knowledge of Islamic practices. There are very few things in the Qur'an or Ahadith that are commands. While non-Muslims seem to believe everything in them is a command.
Many of the Ahadith we will never understand as most Ahadith are just a single line taken from a converstion. Something that impressed the narrator. the Ahadith are not considered sacred as they are not the word of God(swt). I do not even know of any Islamic Scholar that encourages the reading of "Sirat Rasul Allah" it is not a sacred text.
The Qur'an can be understood without knowing a thing about Muhammad(saws) It is not by or about Muhammad(saws) We are not commanded to read the Ahadith, but if we want to know why we do some things, that is the source for learning the why.
Overall I find a person will learn very little about Islam from Dr. Wagner's videos. If one desires to learn about Islam they will do much better by studying the Fatwas, but be aware Sunni and Shi'ite define Fatwas differently. To a Sunni it is a judicial opinion based upon the Qur'an. Not a command.
To a Shi'ite it is a command from Allaah(swt) given through an Ayatollah.
You are using typical answers muslims use all the time when faced with cold hard facts.
First attack him, in your case calling his a fundamental christian, which he is not.
Even if he was, His religion has nothing to do with text written 1200 years before he was born.
He makes it very clear, he is not attacking muslims, and whatever particular path a muslim is on.
He is attacking the written text of a political ideology, and presents facts to support his case.
He manages to come up with the same conclusions anyone who studies the religion comes up with.
I have been into this about 8 years, long before I heard of bill warner, Graig Winn, or many of the prolific scholars, I also follow Crowe, Smith, Spencer, and a lot of others and independent of each other, we all come up with the same thing.
I have also learned that if you want to learn about Islam, the last place you turn is
Ask a muslim.
Read the Qur'an
You need to go to the actual source, because all of Islam, regardless of the sect, when need be, will revert to the source.
I doubt if there is any source that can state it is the definitive word on Islam. All one can do is try to learn the views of individual Muslims. There are about as many views as there are Muslims.
I doubt if there is any source that can state it is the definitive word on Islam. All one can do is try to learn the views of individual Muslims. There are about as many views as there are Muslims.
And here lies another problem that will not go away , at least until it is addressed collectively,, and that is impossible as long as Islam is used for political control as opposed to a religion.
Here we have a religion, whose own writings destroy it, a fabrication of some magic being, and his earthly contact. A story of rob, rape, and kill, throughout the countryside, filling the coffers of the leaders.
A story of obey me, do as I say, obey your ruler, or die.
And pretending these orders came from God, keeping the people brainwashed, and submissive, with total disregard for others who share this planet, earth.
And here lies another problem that will not go away , at least until it is addressed collectively,, and that is impossible as long as Islam is used for political control as opposed to a religion.
Here we have a religion, whose own writings destroy it, a fabrication of some magic being, and his earthly contact. A story of rob, rape, and kill, throughout the countryside, filling the coffers of the leaders.
A story of obey me, do as I say, obey your ruler, or die.
And pretending these orders came from God, keeping the people brainwashed, and submissive, with total disregard for others who share this planet, earth.
While there are despots that do use religion as a control measure, it is not an easy thing to maintain. Saudi as a Monarchy has only existed since the 1930s and is beginning to fall apart. Iran existed quite secular although as a Monarchy since the "Queen of Sheba" it only became a theocracy with the over throw of the Palavi family and our help placing the Ayatollah in control. But even that is slipping back to Majority rule.
The Majority of the Islamic Nations are quite secular. While both Saudi and Iran claim to be Theocracies, Saudi is a Monarchy under full control of the al-Saud Family. Iran is a Theocracy under an Ayatollah which I guess you could call the Shi'ite Pope. the remaining Muslim majority nations are predominatly secular except for the Aceh province of Indonesia,
Just my opinion: But I believe is is impossible for a person to separate their ideological views (Secular & Religious) from their political views. Their personal beliefs will be reflected in their political opinions.
If the majority of the people in a nation follow one ideology, the political views of that nation will reflect that ideology.
If the majority of the people are of one religion, the laws and policies will reflect that religion.
All political regimes eventually succumb to the majority mind set. The USA is unique in not being a homogeneous society. We are a diverse nation and as a result many different opinions are expressed in our laws. But we are an exception and not the norm.
The US founding fathers tried to make a clear separation of church and state, but I believe this was directed at Catholicism, and the US was and still is, a predominately Christian society. However now as the people are evolving and becoming more educated, people are enforcing the separation even harder.
It was just back in the 20s when the Scopes trial, ( monkey trial), was lost to religion.
personally I like the standard Christian views of a society, but I get a little upset with the hard core christians.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
