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Hello!
My husband and I may be relocating for a job in Jacksonville. We are in our mid 50's and are recent empty nesters. We are interested in living in a Golf Community and have narrowed it down (I think) to Sawgrass Country Club, The Player's Club, The Plantation and Marsh Landing. We love the homes in The Plantation but the HOA/club dues seem outrageous! Any opinions on the differences between the 4 of them would be greatly appreciated. We are looking to meet people and feel a sense of community. Having a beach club is a plus!
Another question....my 78 year old mother will be moving with us and we need a LOW COST but lovely retirement communtiy with some assisted living. She only brings in $2000 a month and her medications, at this time are roughly $350 of that. We have not yet applied for assistance thru the VA or elsewhere. We would love her to be able to live closer to us (but not with us!) as I am an only child.
Any opinions are very much appreciated!!!
You're talking about a few different kinds of golf clubs.
The Plantation is an equity club - and all homeowners are required to belong to it. I don't think people who live outside the Plantation are allowed to join.
Sawgrass is also an equity club. But people in Sawgrass aren't required to join - and people who live outside Sawgrass can join. IIRC - I recently got a "try it for dues only" for a year offer from Sawgrass in the mail.
Marsh Landing is not an equity club. People in Marsh Landing aren't required to join - and people outside Marsh Landing can join. The "buy in" is waived if you buy through a real estate company (forget the name) owned by one of the golf course owners.
I believe all 3 of the above have monthly club dues that vary depending on the nature of your membership (social/tennis/golf/etc.). Some (all?) have food/beverage minimums.
The TPC has various types of memberships. But the one that makes the most sense for most people is a Valley Membership - where you pay a flat fee of $2500/year. For that - you get to play the Valley Course for cart fees only - can play the Stadium Course at a discount. You also get a 20% discount on food - lessons - merchandise - etc. No one in Sawgrass is required to join the TPC - and anyone can join.
If you tell me a little about your family - the nature of your interest in golf - etc. - perhaps I can try to point you in the right direction. Note that we live in Marsh Landing and play golf at the TPC. We also have a membership at the Winston Y. Robyn
P.S. Our HOA fees are $1940/year for the Master Association - and $720/year for our sub-association (sub-association fees in Marsh Landing vary).
With regard to your mother - you haven't stated clearly whether you're looking for an independent senior living facility or an assisted living facility. For example - my father (93) lives in a nice independent living facility (he has a townhouse) called the Carriage Club (near Southside and JTB). It does have some ALF beds - but they are pretty much designed for people in the Carriage Club who need an ALF for short periods of time (like recuperating after surgery). The Carriage Club wouldn't be my first choice for someone who needed full-time ALF care.
FWIW - I don't think you're going to find "lovely" and "low cost" here. At a place like the Carriage Club - I suspect you're looking at about $2k/month minimum for a smaller apartment in the main building (my father pays over $3k/month - but he has a pretty large unit in the villa area). That price includes about 30 meals a month - once a week cleaning - almost all utilities - transportation to shopping - doctors - houses of worship - some cultural events - etc.
The Coves is a nice independent living facility at a somewhat lower price point - but it's in Mandarin (longer drive from PVB). Robyn
P.S. I looked at the Carriage Club website - and the monthly minimum now is $2660/month.
Something else I forgot to mention. Except for the Plantation - where the HOA and the club are joined at the hip - you may be confusing HOAs with golf clubs. Marsh Landing is a HOA. Sawgrass is actually 2 separate HOAs - Sawgrass Players Club is the part that is west of A1A - and the part that's east of A1A is called (I think) Sawgrass County Club. Except for the Plantation - the golf clubs may be located within a HOA - but aren't part of the HOA (although they may deal with one another when it comes to things like landscaping - construction - traffic - etc.).
Note that there is a second club in the west part of Sawgrass - Ponte Vedra Country Club (not to be confused with the Ponte Vedra Inn and Club - which also has golf facilities).
Also - there are beach clubs that are associated with golf/country clubs - but I believe at least a few have memberships that are separate from the country club/golf memberships. Also - IIRC - there may be one or two stand-alone beach clubs (I'm a golf person - not a beach person).
IOW - except at the Plantation - you can pretty much "mix and match" your house (which doesn't have to be in a HOA) and your club(s) to come up with what suits you best. Robyn
Thanks Robyn! I reread my post and did not ask my question well. I was a realtor in Williamsburg, VA before we moved out here (Pasadena, CA) so I am familiar with HOA vs Dues. We also lived in a great golf community called Kingsmill on the James. I am looking to live where we can easily meet people. It is much harder without school aged children to meet other families. I am also a begining golfer and looking forward to playing more so hopefully that will help. I loved the pictures of the beach club at Sawgrass Country Club. Looks like they have dances in the summer....fun! Having a club restaurant overlooking the ocean is a plus. I'm just wondering if one community over another has more activites and is easier to feel a sense of belonging.
As for my mother...ugh! Such a difficult situation. She is only 78 but needs to be with people her age and where there is someone nearby...more of a just in case. She gets a bit mixed up and especially in a new environment. The tough part is...she only receives $2000 per month. I am looking into VA assistance and other sources. St. Augustine looks like it may have some places as well. I have seen one retirement home called Emeritus that has several communities. This is all new to us and there is no mannual!
I appreciate your response! Are you a realtor? I was with Coldwell Banker and was looking at their website. I want to work with a good local firm....doesn't need to be CB. We are thinking of renting for a year first to get to know the area or doing a lease/purchase. I saw the same deal at Sawgrass CC that offers dues only for a year....that was enticing. Thanks again!
I'm not a realtor. Just someone who has lived here for over 15 years and has looked over the same places you're looking at now. This is the realtor I recommend:
She wasn't our broker - she was the broker for the seller (the developer) when we bought our lot in 1995. I was impressed by her professionalism then - and have been impressed by what I've heard about her over the years "through the grapevine". Also - she knows this area like the back of her hand. OTOH - you have to keep in mind that in Florida - unless you specifically retain a "buyer's broker" - you'll be dealing with a "seller's broker" whose primary responsibility is to the seller - not you.
You're talking to the wrong person when it comes to socializing along the lines of "tripping the light fantastic" . Because my husband and I aren't into socializing like that these days (don't think we have been since our "disco days" in Miami ). We do have some friends - but our socializing consists mostly of having people over for dinner - going to their places for dinner - or going out for dinner. However I think you will find organized 9 hole womens' golf groups at all of the clubs you mentioned. Suitable for beginners. All provide opportunities for socializing (in the past - I've played with the Marsh Landing 9 and 18 holers - and the womens' golf group at the TPC - which gives you the option of playing 9 or 18 holes - there aren't 2 separate golf groups). I've also played league tennis at Marsh Landing and the ATP. Similar opportunities for socializing.
Note that it is easy to meet people/socialize here in other ways. Like getting involved in charity stuff. Although we're involved with some charitable causes from a money POV - we're not people who like to go to charity events - especially the dress-up kind. Only exception is UF events where we get to meet faculty members - many of whom have interesting things to say. Then there's political stuff - groups that center around hobbies - etc.
My husband and I are about 10 years older than you and your husband. And I guess at our age - we're just not interested in trying to make small talk at structured social events with relative or complete strangers who aren't very interesting. Our idea of good socializing (apart from our friends) is going to the bar at the TPC after playing golf - having a drink - and perhaps talking with strangers about golf (if they're boring - we can always excuse ourselves and go home). IOW - sounds like we're totally different kinds of people. So all I can give you is general information.
As for your mother - I still don't have a clue what you mean. Especially when you say "where there is someone nearby". For example - in my father's independent living facility - he has a lady friend nearby (she lives next door and helps when he gets a cold or something like that - she is also his social companion - and perhaps there's a little sex there too). He has us nearby (we get together about once a week for lunch and are almost always here in town if there's an emergency). He has a cleaning service once a week - and a woman who comes in about 3 times a week to make lunch for him (he makes his own breakfast) - do some laundry - extra cleaning - etc. But - other than that - if he has a problem - it's 911 time.
So what do you mean? Does your mother need someone to remind her to take her meds? To help her with her bathing? Does she fall a lot? Forget where she is? You use the phrase "gets a bit mixed up". But you have to be more specific. I assume she doesn't drive - but I could be wrong.
FWIW - I think if you put your cards on the table - you are talking about someone who perhaps needs a low level of assisted living. Which will cost a lot more than $2k a month in a nice place. So you will have 2 choices. Either find a place to live with "granny quarters" - where she can live with you (you can hire someone part-time to help her). Or pay what she can't afford to pay in a nice ALF.
I know very little about VA benefits/facilities - except the former aren't particularly generous and you have to be next to broke to get them - and we have a new VA skilled nursing facility down near the World Golf Village.
I do know a bit about elder care. Both my late mother and late MIL were cared for at home (in between hospital/SNF stays) by my father and late FIL - and various caregivers (like hospice workers). My late mother for perhaps a year. My late MIL for about 5 years. We moved my late FIL here in 2002 after he had a stroke - to what I think is the best skilled nursing facility in the metro area - perhaps the whole state of Florida. It took great care of him - but we saw him at least once/twice a week so he could get some off-site R&R. Also dealt with his medical problems - especially in his last 6 months - when they got really bad (he died 12/04). My mother died 6 weeks later. My father moved here in 2/06 - about a year after my mother died. And he is still doing fine.
I guess there are only 2 problems we haven't faced with our parents. The first is mental incapacity. All of our parents had/have various medical problems - but they all had/have all their marbles. The second is money. Not that any of our parents were super rich. They were just Depression generation people. Never spent a lot - always saved a lot. And my father sold his waterfront house in south Florida at the top of the real estate market (he wasn't a genius - that was just a short time after my mother died - and he did it for tax reasons). So our mothers had the benefit of our fathers taking care of them. And our fathers could/can easily afford the best of what Jacksonville has to offer. OTOH - if they couldn't afford the best - we would chip in - along with some of our sibs. Because we can afford to - and because our fathers took care of our mothers (which a lot of guys won't do).
If you're looking at PVB - I wouldn't even consider a place in St. Augustine for your mother. You have to be closer than that (unless she is totally independent and has no issues). My father lives 20 minutes away from us. My late FIL's SNF was 30-35 minutes away from us - but - when he had an emergency - we could be at the ER where he wound up (the old Mayo Hospital at JTB and Belfort) - in 15 minutes.
FWIW - your mother's medical insurance would be an issue in terms of the move as well (perhaps yours might be too). Traditional Medicare versus Advantage - etc. Or perhaps she is in Kaiser in California (it doesn't exist here in Florida). I do a fair amount of work on the Retirement Forum. A lot of elder care issues are discussed there - and I suggest posting any general questions there (including ones about things like VA benefits). Whether or not you move - or move here. There are a lot of people there who know a lot about this stuff. Robyn
My in-laws are looking to retire here and they were also turned off my the Plantation fees
It pretty much comes out even in the end best I can tell. Depending on the number of years you're looking at. Higher fees in the Plantation mean lower house/land prices. Lower fees in other areas mean higher house/land prices.
Our thinking when we bought/built in Marsh Landing was we weren't spring chickens - my husband had a bad back - and we didn't want to get locked into an equity golf club situation forever. For people who are younger/in better health/more avid golfers than we were/are - it may well make sense. Also - I was an avid tennis player when we first moved here - and the Plantation didn't have enough tennis courts to be a participant in local team tennis leagues. I think that Plantation has a beach club - but we are not beach people (never were - but certainly aren't now - especially after 40+ years in Florida and skin cancer).
As it turns out - we were members at Marsh Landing for about 8 years or so. First we dropped the golf part and joined the TPC (where we're still members). Then we dropped the tennis and I played at the ATP (don't any more - too many tennis injuries). Then we dropped the social/pool stuff - the last thing - when my husband came to swim at the pool one day in April when it was over 80 - and was told the pool wouldn't open until Memorial Day (WTF - he then became a member at the Winston Y).
The thing we didn't like about the Plantation wasn't the cost - but getting locked into a situation that might not suit us over the years. For example - there have been periods of time when we haven't been able to play golf for months (husband's bad back - parents sick and dying - etc. - etc.). Our TPC membership at $2500/year works fine - whether we're playing a lot or a little. But I don't want to pay over $400/month just for dues when we aren't able to play.
We live TPC even though we aren't golfers. Just love the view of water to golf to beautiful big trees. Our property is large for PVB, .75 acres with a big backyard and privacy. We looked at >30 homes in Marsh Landing and TPC and found that most lots in TPC were larger than Marsh Landing. I think the grounds of TPC and ML are much prettier than SCC. The HOA fees are about $800 for TPC and $660 for the Salt Creek subdivision. Not much comes with that other than well maintained grounds. The majority of our neighborhood are empty nesters in their 50s and 60s. Some subdivisions in TPC are much friendlier than others - 7 Mile Drive had a nice ladies club and folks socialized more than they do in Salt Creek. It's not unfriendly here, just not as sociable. Houses in 7 Mile Drive run $650,000+++; there isn't usually anything for sale in Salt Creek.
I no longer live in the area, so I won't comment on the golf communities, but do have a suggestion for your mother. My late mother lived at Ashford Court in Jacksonville Beach. Both she and we (my siblings and I) were very pleased with it.
Something to consider, since you mention confusion, is that it may be better to choose a facility that offers "memory care" (or whatever term they use for a secure living arrangement for people with dementia/Alzheimer's.) Even if your mother doesn't meet the criteria for needing memory care right now, she may in the future. It would be easier on both of you if she could transition within the same facility instead of having to be moved off site. Ashford Court offers both assisted living and memory care.
The only issue you may have with Ashford Court is, if I recall correctly, their fees start about $3,500/mo. That does include 3 meals/day, weekly housekeeping, transportation to appointments and shopping, and numerous activities. If you mother has assets that could be liquidated to supplement her current income, that may be worth doing.
You also mentioned looking into VA benefits. In case someone else suggests it, Fleet Landing did not provide memory care when we needed it (although they did accept some patients who clearly required it.) A quick look at their website did not turn up anything to indicate that they now offer secure care for dementia/Alzheimer's patients.
Good luck!
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. Because my husband and I aren't into socializing like that these days (don't think we have been since our "disco days" in Miami 
). We do have some friends - but our socializing consists mostly of having people over for dinner - going to their places for dinner - or going out for dinner. However I think you will find organized 9 hole womens' golf groups at all of the clubs you mentioned. Suitable for beginners. All provide opportunities for socializing (in the past - I've played with the Marsh Landing 9 and 18 holers - and the womens' golf group at the TPC - which gives you the option of playing 9 or 18 holes - there aren't 2 separate golf groups). I've also played league tennis at Marsh Landing and the ATP. Similar opportunities for socializing.
