Maybe I'm missing something... (Jacksonville, Mayo: rentals, condos, homes)

[tjax1000]

It has been about 3 years since I've lived in Jax, but I'm really surprised after reading this forum to see that so many large projects are continuing to break ground. I've read about or heard about a couple large projects in the Southside area for example.... Something near Gate Pkwy, and some things near the Avenues.

I guess two things suprise me. Traffic was absolutely horrible in Jax when I left at certain times of the day. I remember being clogged in Gate Parkway traffic long before SJTC originated. I can't even conceive of what it will be like with these new developements on the Southside! I have to assume we're talking about I-4 type traffic, where hour commutes through town are not uncommon.

Second, I thought we were in a huge recession (according to the talking heads on TV anyway.) I have to admit even looking at it objectively, our economic status isn't so great right now. Big projects are being halted everywhere, and I know *some* in Jax have been halted. Yet it seems that certain pockets are almost immune. I would have said that Jax was already saturated with commerical, residential rentals, condos, and single family homes.

So you can see the contradiction for an "outsider." What am I missing? Is the economy and job growth in Jax just outpacing the rest of the state? Really curious to know!

[HollyinJAX]

I just have to laugh whenever I hear anyone complaining of "Jacksonville traffic". The absolute worst traffic here is nothing in comparison... no big deal...piece of cake....compared to Dallas or Houston! The economy seems to be doing well here - becoming an 'insider' as I live here longer, there is a lot of optimism in this town. I think this is Jacksonville is one of America's 'best kept secrets'! Who knew? We love it here!

[tjax1000]

Well, a measure of perceived traffic severity in Jax is probably directly related to the length of the commute. The thing that is somewhat unique about Jax is the geographic sprawl.

Many types of jobs (for example, IT) could be spread all over, from downtown to the Southside to the beaches. If you make a deciison to settle your family down in one spot near your current employment, you may find yourself a victim in a few years if you need to change jobs. Years ago I commuted from one end of Baymeadows to the other. It was amazing how long that little drive took. I would have ridden my bike but there was no safe way to do this.

In many ways this is a problem everwhere I guess. Suburban/urban sprawl.

Currently I commute 30 minutes from one side of Kauai to the other... almost no traffic and beautiful scenery all the way. It is funny to here people who've lived here their whole lives though. They can't believe I drive from Lihue to Waimea every day. For many of them, this is a trip they take only a couple times a year! Anway, I'll be back in Jax after the holidays so I'm curious to see all the new growth.

[KerryB]

It's not as bad here probably because Jacksonville isn't just a one trick pony & isn't as reliant on tourism as the rest of the state. Which is a good thing if you ask me.

I dont know about you guys, but when I travel around touristy FL & come back home to Jax, I'm always thankful I dont live in those other areas. I dont think I could take all the tourist crap staring me in the face 24/7. Feels more like a real city here.

[projectmaximus]

Originally Posted by tjax1000

It has been about 3 years since I've lived in Jax, but I'm really surprised after reading this forum to see that so many large projects are continuing to break ground. I've read about or heard about a couple large projects in the Southside area for example.... Something near Gate Pkwy, and some things near the Avenues.

I guess two things suprise me. Traffic was absolutely horrible in Jax when I left at certain times of the day. I remember being clogged in Gate Parkway traffic long before SJTC originated. I can't even conceive of what it will be like with these new developements on the Southside! I have to assume we're talking about I-4 type traffic, where hour commutes through town are not uncommon.

Second, I thought we were in a huge recession (according to the talking heads on TV anyway.) I have to admit even looking at it objectively, our economic status isn't so great right now. Big projects are being halted everywhere, and I know *some* in Jax have been halted. Yet it seems that certain pockets are almost immune. I would have said that Jax was already saturated with commerical, residential rentals, condos, and single family homes.

So you can see the contradiction for an "outsider." What am I missing? Is the economy and job growth in Jax just outpacing the rest of the state? Really curious to know!

About three years...so does that mean you were here for the Super Bowl or not? Anyway, there have been some excellent improvements to the highway infrastructure...from the 2-95/9A connection to the new I-95/I-10 interchange. There might be more, I haven't really spent that much time in Jax since I left for college in 2002, but this is what I've seen during my brief visits home.

Anyway, there has been a decent amount of development in the last couple years, but actually many, many, amazing projects have been indefinitely postponed, drastically altered, or canceled altogether. Here's a quick rundown of some nice projects that are now very much dead, via Metrojacksonville.com: Metro Jacksonville - Results of the Boom: Dead Projects

makes me cry every time.

On the bright side, here are summaries of what did move forward: Metro Jacksonville - Results of the Boom: Completed or Under Construction

and what is still possible on the horizon: Metro Jacksonville - Results of the Boom: Current Proposals

(although prado walk and 200 Riverside have eliminated most of the residential components. Same with Avenues Walk, though I didnt see it in the links above)

[riveree]

As you said, Tjax, a lot of projects have been scrapped or put on hold - the downtown projects seem to have been hit especially hard, probably due to their high cost .

Some of the projects that are continuing to move forward are located in greenfield areas (former pasture, forest, trees...), so the land and construction is cheaper than many infill and adaptive areas closer to downtown. I think this is one deciding factor in project survival right now.

Jax was also slower to feel the impact of the changing economy, and many experts have predicted we'll be one of the first Florida cities to recover.

Some of the projects that are moving forward are:

*Phase III of the St. John's Town Center (Southside)

*Tapestry Park (Southside)

*Avenues Walk (Southside)

*Jackson Square (Southside, specifically San Marco)

There's also a new shopping center on the Northside, Nocatee being build in North St. John's County, Oakleaf in South Clay County, and probably others that aren't coming to mind right now.

As for traffic, we've moved past a lot of the road construction. 9A is completed and we now have a full circle around downtown (I295). Beach Blvd is expanded and moves quite well now. Kernan is going to 6 lanes with 2 overpasses. The bridges crossing over the Intracoastal have been expanded/rebuilt. You'll have to see what you think of the traffic flow on your next visit .

[Joe 4520832257]

Honestly, Jax does not have bad traffic by national standards. That's probably the main reason why we can get away with being as sprawled out as we are.

The only truly awful traffic spots I've seen are Blanding Blvd south of 295 and maybe the Matthews Bridge during rush hour.

All the other bad traffic areas are actually pretty tame compared to other cities - where you can actually get stuck dead-stop on a freeway and be delayed for an hour.

[Keith-n-Jax]

Traffic near JTB is almost Atlanta like, but no where near the commute and congestion.

[tjax1000]

Thanks for the info, insight and links. I was there for the Superbowl, which was a lot of fun. I had never seen so many people at the Landing! And the main street bridge filled with pedestrians was a sight. However I didn't expect it to have a major, long term effect on anything. I guess folks will argue both ways whether it did or didn't.

Also, some of the other posts I've been reading make me wonder if the projects that are still underway are mainly being fed by migration out of other areas. For example, a transfer of power from the Regency Mall to other properties on the Southside.

I must also say that the "completed" list @ the metrojax site is impressive. Some architecture and planning to be proud of there. Maybe if people start demanding more than just generic, nothing-special spec home communities that I'm sure continue to be built.... well, maybe then some of the projects on the "dead projects" list would come to fruition.

Downtown alone has so many cool old buildings. How awesome would it be to see those buildings brought back to life along with some 21st century high rise counterparts made of glass and steel to occupy the perimeter. Really, what is the hangup with this in so many cities? Is it critical mass? People won't move back to downtown until thousands of other people do it? I guess the upshot is that progress is being made.

[projectmaximus]

Well, the Super Bowl definitely had a big effect, but it could've been so much more. Mayor Peyton himself publicly lamented (in a statement a few months ago) the Super Bowl as a missed opportunity (ironic considering much of it was in his hands). Look at Houston as an example of a city really taking advantage of the full economic impact the SB can bring.

Yes, some development certainly results in cannibalism...the Avenues Mall and SJTC have rapidly accelerated the demise of the Regency Mall, and I can only wonder what more damage the River City Town Center and Avenues Walk will eventually do. But at the same time, you have to hope these projects yield an overall improvement to the current landscape.

As for downtown revitalization...this has been going on for some time now in cities all across the country. It's the wave of the future...the new generations are seeking out urban lifestlyes in much larger numbers than the suburban, car-oriented lifestyles that had been the dream of our predecessors. But Jacksonville is certainly not a pioneer, and our leaders are typically conservative/status quo types, so we're way behind. And as long as it's more cost-efficient for developers to sprawl rather than revive downtown areas, we're always gonna be way behind.