Another super subsidized greenfield retail development in affluent suburban location! (Clinton: low income, sales)

[kcmo]

Again, why tax payers put up with this in the KC area is mind boggling to me. These subsidies are not only going to build sprawl infrastructure they are going to build the actual stores.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local...cle728834.html

18.5 million in public money is being used to build a 73 million dollar retail center in an open field of a high growth suburb.

And it's right next to two other highly subsidized shopping centers (Summit Woods and Summit Fair).

Between giving back to developers most tax money that most shopping centers in the KC area produce and additional overlay "transportation" taxes added to most of these developments, it's no wonder metro KC will never be able to use sales taxes to fund the things that should be funded with sales taxes, especially regionally.

Most of KC has sales taxes of 8-10% and almost nothing to show for it as far as regional infrastructure etc. Why not just raise the sales tax 1% across the metro for suburban retail centers and be done with it?

[luzianne]

I don't know - why do American taxpayers put up with the taxes we are paying to the federal government? I personally think it's time for another Boston tea party type revolt, but everyone is so sheepish. They pay their taxes and say nothing. And the government takes more and more and more and more.

Personally, I can handle local taxes, where I can see my money at work, a lot better than federal taxes that are supporting people who won't work.

[luzianne]

And sheepish wasn't the word I meant. I meant they are LIKE sheep, not questioning anything, just doing what they are told, without challenging anything; complacent.

[SPonteKC]

Originally Posted by luzianne

Personally, I can handle local taxes, where I can see my money at work, a lot better than federal taxes that are supporting people who won't work.

Of course, that's not really what Federal Tax money gets spent on. This is:




And it's probably worth reminding you that Kansas (as well as Missouri) gets significantly more money back from the federal government that it contributes. It is essentially a welfare state. Much of that is due to the almost entirely subsidized agriculture industry in Kansas, but it certainly doesn't help that Kansas takes its local tax money and gives it away to developers to build shopping malls and to corporations to move across state lines, resulting in ever more federal subsidizing of the services Kansan pay taxes for the government to provide.

[luzianne]

Low income assistance/Medicaid should be combined and I have a feeling a large part of the "everything else" is food stamps, cell phones, etc. for people who prefer not to work. There are more people on public assistance now than ever before. There is something wrong with this picture.

[denverian]

Originally Posted by luzianne

Low income assistance/Medicaid should be combined and I have a feeling a large part of the "everything else" is food stamps, cell phones, etc. for people who prefer not to work. There are more people on public assistance now than ever before. There is something wrong with this picture.

Oh, yeah. All these people who are perfectly capbable of holding down a job who just walked off one day, stopped by their local gub'ment welfare shop, and signed up for free cell phones, food and rent, living the high life

You should seriously direct your outrage at something like, oh, a president who started a war based on lies and then spent trillions of our tax dollars blowing up a country and killing people for a decade when that country has zero chance at ever becoming anything different than what is was when we started bombing it. There's one place where your tax dollars have been going to serious waste

It's not welfare and food stamps that's ruining this country financially. And what people on foodstamps get per month isn't enough to feed them anymore. Not exactly some incentive to be lazy.

People grow up in unfortunate circumstances, have horrible parents who made horrible choices, they're poorly raised and poorly educated and end up unable to care for themselves. Or they suffer an injury, or have mental illness, are prone to addiction, or whatever else negative has affected their lives. I'm sure they'd rather have the knowledge, ability, self discipline and education to be able to support themselves. But I'd much rather have a little of my tax money go toward at least feeding and housing people in these situations than to have them out wandering the streets and robbing to get food.

Is there abuse in the system? Of course there is! But even so, there are humans out there in the U.S. who for whatever reason are unable to be productive members of society. I've known some of them, and they didn't have the luxury of growing up middle class with two sane parents and the opportunity to become well-educated. Providing them with zero safety net will not solve any problem, or push them to become productive, self-supporting workers.

Maybe instead of pointing fingers and complaining about people on foodstamps, you could show a little compassion and empathy for fellow humans who live in poverty and be thankful that your life situation and opportunities have given you something much, much better.

[luzianne]

I personally know of a few people who are living off of taxpayers with free phones, free bus pass, EBT cards (which they sell for 50 cents on the dollar to buy alcohol), and government paid housing plus getting checks of about $1700 a month for "disability." I know it's hard to get disability. What I can't figure out is how someone who truly needs it is denied, while other people who just want to drink and not work are approved.

It would be nice if the only people being supported by taxpayers were people who truly needed help, but I know firsthand that that is not the case. I have plenty of compassion and empathy for people who need temporary assistance to get back on their feet. That's not what I'm talking about. I said people who don't want to work. That is different than people who can't work.

A war started on lies? Hmmm. Seems like at the time the war started, everyone - including Bill and Hillary Clinton - AGREED with it based on the intelligence available. They were all behind it. Or did you forget that part? And I think what we have found since is that there were indeed WMDs. But I'm not going to argue that here; it's a losing battle. The left is always going to slant things to make everything Bush's fault. I sure wish Bush were still president now.

[denverian]

Originally Posted by luzianne

I personally know of a few people who are living off of taxpayers with free phones, free bus pass, EBT cards (which they sell for 50 cents on the dollar to buy alcohol), and government paid housing plus getting checks of about $1700 a month for "disability." I know it's hard to get disability. What I can't figure out is how someone who truly needs it is denied, while other people who just want to drink and not work are approved.

It would be nice if the only people being supported by taxpayers were people who truly needed help, but I know firsthand that that is not the case. I have plenty of compassion and empathy for people who need temporary assistance to get back on their feet. That's not what I'm talking about. I said people who don't want to work. That is different than people who can't work.

A war started on lies? Hmmm. Seems like at the time the war started, everyone - including Bill and Hillary Clinton - AGREED with it based on the intelligence available. They were all behind it. Or did you forget that part? And I think what we have found since is that there were indeed WMDs. But I'm not going to argue that here; it's a losing battle. The left is always going to slant things to make everything Bush's fault. I sure wish Bush were still president now.

Really? Now people on the right think there were actually WMDs? Good god

Yeah, people on the left fell for the LIES. It was quite obvious that Bush was going to have his war as he fished for excuses to see which one would stick with the public. If anyone disagreed, left or right, it was political suicide. Bush and Cheney should be in prison! Responsible for thousands of deaths, financial ruin of the U.S... just sickening. And I was quite aware of the PNAC and what they were REALLY trying to do back in 2002. But I suppose if you think Fox News is actual news, then it's understandable that you have such views. What would Bush be doing now? Besides flushing more money down the war toilet, enriching corporations and the 1%, and creating more enemies for the U.S.

Maybe you have little understanding of those who just don't want to work, and those who cannot. Maybe that's the real difference between the left and the right. On the left, we just have more empathy. And you supposedly live in suburban JoCo, yet you pal around with people who sell bus passes for booze? lol!

[luzianne]

Politicians on the left saw the same intelligence that Bush saw and they were for going into Iraq. End of story. They didn't "fall" for anything. When Bush was in the White House, we had a president and first lady with some class.

I didn't say they sell bus passes. I said they sell the value of their EBT card. And no, I don't pal around with them. I know them. I am related by marriage, unfortunately. And they tried to get me and my husband to use their EBT card and give them half the value in cash - which we declined to do. I know exactly who doesn't want to work and who can't. These people can and they don't want to. They want to drink. Two of them voluntarily left their jobs. The other one was laid off and decided he'd collect unemployment until it ran out and then find another job. Except he started drinking all day and never looked for another job and now has a free phone and an EBT card. He's been offered a job by a family friend and showed up for a couple of days and then didn't go back. He doesn't want to work; he wants to drink. Working interferes with that. He was also offered a chance to go into a halfway house where they would help him find housing and a job, and he declined.

I think I have a lot better understanding of the situation than most people.

[pacificwhim]

"I think I have a lot better understanding of the situation than most people."

Of course you do. But you'd be wrong.