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Don't you think the fact the students come from disproportionately poor homes compared to the suburbs has something to do with it?
No. I think the fact that the kids come from disproportionately apathetic/lazy/disrespectful homes has something to do with it though. I was unaware that monetary wealth had anything to do with how intelligence and how you act towards your elders...
You don't think the fact that many of these kids have poor nutrition because of poverty, with parents that are often gone because they are single parents with one, maybe more than one job, and live in neighborhoods that have been neglected and look hopeless have any impact on their education?
Its just a big coincidence that all the worst school districts happen to be in poor areas?
I know plenty of people that didn't have parents at home that made it through the school system just fine. There are FREE buses that pick them up, FREE meals if they qualify, FREE rides home, i'm sure most are getting FREE money from me and my taxes that I pay to buy themselves food every month. Hell, my parents worked every single day that I was in school and I would wake up early to go to day care so that my parents could go to work. And after school, when my parents were still working, I went to day care until I was old enough to stay home by myself (6th or 7th grade, somewhere around there.)
I do not feel sorry for these people we are talking about at all. They may not have the same luxuries that I and others had growing up, but they damn sure have every opportunity to go to school and get a diploma. They just choose not to, or skip all the time, or partake in gang-related activities, or whatever reason. I still think apathy is the main reason though.
I'm sure there are kids from poor homes that can break the odds and succeed. But the overwhelming number of kids in school districts that are failing are from poor areas. And its not even just poor black areas, its poor white areas as well (see Appalachia)
I agree that apathy is a big problem, but I think that apathy comes from poverty. Most of these kids are from broken homes, with little authority, in neighborhoods that have been severely neglected, with few positive role models on how to act. There is a feeling of helplessness and despair in the ghetto. What do they have to look forward to? What can they aspire to?
I'm not absolving parental responsibility from the equation, but I'm just saying the link between poverty and bad school districts is undeniable. What we can/should do about it is the tougher question.
I'm sure there are kids from poor homes that can break the odds and succeed. But the overwhelming number of kids in school districts that are failing are from poor areas. And its not even just poor black areas, its poor white areas as well (see Appalachia)
I agree that apathy is a big problem, but I think that apathy comes from poverty. Most of these kids are from broken homes, with little authority, in neighborhoods that have been severely neglected, with few positive role models on how to act. There is a feeling of helplessness and despair in the ghetto. What do they have to look forward to? What can they aspire to?
I'm not absolving parental responsibility from the equation, but I'm just saying the link between poverty and bad school districts is undeniable. What we can/should do about it is the tougher question.
Agreed.
Maybe I was a tad extreme but I just get tired of people saying it's "not their fault." It is and it isn't. Meh.
This is what they would get out of it:
* Access to existing KCMOSD magnet programs in central Kansas City
My kid was in NKCSD prior to my move - we had no problem with access to specialized programs at all (my daughter is gifted).
It's absolutely possible to reciprocate between SD's for specialized programs rather than consolidate all resources into one ginormous district (which was the case when I grew up in STL in the Pattonville SD).
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* Combination of resources so specialized magnet programs could be started in other high schools - I.E. one could start a pilot/aviation magnet program by Kansas City Airport.
If there is a demand for such a program, you do not need to consolidate districts in order to create it.
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* In some cases streamlining of attendance boundaries to reduce transportation costs for zoned students (more or less between suburban areas and other suburban areas)
I don't see any major difference between NKC, DeSoto County MS and Clark County, NV here (see stats for these districts below) - well, actually, that's not true - NKC was better.
In fact, DeSoto cut bus routes dramatically last year because of the expenses (and didn't even bother to tell us ahead of time, but that's a whole 'nother discussion). Also, because the district was county-wide, in the wintertime, some parts of the county would get a bit of ice/snow, and the whole district would shut down as a result - my kid had two "snow days" that were sunny and not a snowflake to be seen. Talk about a wasted expense...
Here in Clark County, my kid doesn't have the option to ride the bus either, and we live 2-1/2 miles from school.
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The goal is to combine resources and student populations so that the new consolidated district can offer special programs to prepare students for specific careers. I.E. one can be in a health sciences program, one can be in an aviation sciences program, one can be in a performing arts program, etc.
You can get that in ways other than a consolidation into a larger district. I see no advantage here for the suburban districts that can't be solved through other means.
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Breaking up the existing KCMOSD into smaller districts wouldn't make sense; the district is small already (4 high schools, with their sizes smaller than other district's schools); keep in mind it lost Western Independence and Sugar Hill. If anything it shows smaller is not always better either. It's all up to the management to determine how well a school system is run. Regarding "I've lived in two school districts that were huge and county-wide" - Is this in terms of area or in terms of population? Many southern countywide districts have large areas but few people.
I said that I would love to see KCMOSD zeroed out, rethought, and started over - the way it runs today doesn't seem to serve its community well at all, and yet, we're kinda stuck with it as it is today. What it should look like is certainly open to debate; however, I think consolidation is not the answer, obviously - I think bigger is rarely better.
I currently live in Clark County, NV (312,218 students, 347 schools) - I think it's the 5th largest district in the United States. I moved from DeSoto County, MS (28,738 students, 33 schools). So both those school districts are larger than KCMOSD (and NKCSD and most of the other districts around KCMO).
Neither of these bigger districts, to my personal experience, is in any way run better, more cost effective, efficient, or offer any services I couldn't get in most of the "smaller" districts in the KCMO area. NKCSD was a FAR better experience for a variety of reasons.
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I must reiterate: The current Kansas City, Missouri School District is a small school district, not a big school district. It is an example of a bad school district. Size does not matter so much, while management matters a lot.
For Missouri, it's on the bigger side! As I mentioned, I went to Pattonville in the STL area - it had 1 high school!
So if size doesn't matter but management does... how does consolidating KCMO into surrounding, more functional districts in a bigger single district automatically mean "better management"? Are the leaders/parents of KCMOSD going to get disenfranchised in favor of the "better run" suburban district leaders/parents?
It's absolutely possible to reciprocate between SD's for specialized programs rather than consolidate all resources into one ginormous district (which was the case when I grew up in STL in the Pattonville SD).
I'm trying to find the terms of inter-district transfers in Missouri. The idea that I had is that anyone within the Kansas City City Limits would have exactly the same procedures and chances for getting into a particular program as any other Kansas City resident, and there would be no in-district, out of district distinction in terms of applying for a program.
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Here in Clark County, my kid doesn't have the option to ride the bus either, and we live 2-1/2 miles from school.
Dang, that's unusual, especially considering it's a Sunbelt area. In the Houston ISD school district and most other districts in Texas, the limit is 2 miles (driving distance, not the way a crow flies)
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You can get that in ways other than a consolidation into a larger district. I see no advantage here for the suburban districts that can't be solved through other means.
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If there is a demand for such a program, you do not need to consolidate districts in order to create it.
I wonder if, under Missouri law, if it is possible to establish a "magnet school district" on top of other districts; In southern Texas there is a "South Texas Independent School District" that operates magnet schools only and takes pupils from three counties.
I would also like to know what the inter-district policies for the state of Missouri are.
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So if size doesn't matter but management does... how does consolidating KCMO into surrounding, more functional districts in a bigger single district automatically mean "better management"? Are the leaders/parents of KCMOSD going to get disenfranchised in favor of the "better run" suburban district leaders/parents?
The KCMOSD parents proportionately are less than half of the population of Kansas City, so they would have less voting power over a consolidated new district than over the old. If you look at the student population KCMOSD is around 1/3 of the student population of the groups of districts that I included. If the board member districts approximated the former school districts by student population (if it was done by actual population it might look different, but I don't have full adult+kid population figures for the districts), about 1/3 of the board members would be from the former KCMOSD. The school board areas could be gerrymandered differently, but that could cause legal issues. Also, if the KCMOSD area is known for low parent turnout/participation/school board voting, there would be even less influence over a combined school board.
Whether this would be "disenfranchisement" or not depends on whether the US DOJ approves or fails the scheme. The US DOJ approved the takeover of the small, all-African American lead WHISD by DISD, the second largest school district in the state of Texas (a mostly minority student population and a school board with about 1/3 Black, 1/3 Hispanic, and 1/3 White members).
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I said that I would love to see KCMOSD zeroed out, rethought, and started over - the way it runs today doesn't seem to serve its community well at all, and yet, we're kinda stuck with it as it is today.
I fully agree with that statement - I think the current district needs to go.
Part of the reason I want consolidation is that if the population of KCMOSD is unable to get competent leadership to run its schools, it should be consolidated into a more functional school district; that outcome happened to Wilmer Hutchins ISD in Dallas, which was so bad that trees were growing through the football bleachers and the offices got raided by the FBI. The small WH ran out of money, and the state of Texas had it consolidated into Dallas ISD; DISD has its own problems, but they are not as severe as what WH had. Anyhow, the other concern is that I did not want the socioeconomics of the current KCMOSD to weigh down any other school districts it would be paired with, so I checked Kansas City's district maps and found that it had many suburban districts serving the city limits. By having multiple "suburban" school districts and one "urban" school district the new district would not be overwhelmed by any socioeconomic or politicial issues from the former KCMOSD portion.
No. I think the fact that the kids come from disproportionately apathetic/lazy/disrespectful homes has something to do with it though. I was unaware that monetary wealth had anything to do with how intelligence and how you act towards your elders...
wow, really? so, i guess that makes me all of the above. i think not. my children actually attend academie lafayette, a french immersion charter school, that is within KCMO boundries. i think the key the success in school district is success of charter schools. as the charter schools do well students will move to those schools and pressure will be put on the school district to improve because of increased low enrollment. plus i believe as the district becomes smaller they will manage better.
Wilmer-Hutchins ISD in Dallas had very high rates of charter school enrollment, and there were also people who illicitly snuck their kids into schools in Dallas ISD and Lancaster ISD. Did WHISD improve as it became smaller and smaller? No, it declined until it ran out of money.
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Originally Posted by famusdarlin
wow, really? so, i guess that makes me all of the above. i think not. my children actually attend academie lafayette, a french immersion charter school, that is within KCMO boundries. i think the key the success in school district is success of charter schools. as the charter schools do well students will move to those schools and pressure will be put on the school district to improve because of increased low enrollment. plus i believe as the district becomes smaller they will manage better.
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